Johnny Au
Senior Member
I strongly agree with Toronto annexing Pearson Airport from Mississauga. Not just that, but the Airport Corporate Centre between Eglinton and Highway 401 should be annexed as well.
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Steve X
Senior Member
They won't be happy they just spent the money on the Mississauga Transitway along Eglinton. Oh yeah, they just put in a roundabout in that area too.
Totally agree that Mississauga shouldn't pay for this. Get the province/feds to fund this important link or don't build it yet. Maybe Mr. Brown can pledge some money in hopes to win the 2018 election. If Mississauga is to spend money on another LRT, it's Dundas, not a TTC link to the Airport.
sixrings
Senior Member
Where's the brampton lrt money
drum118
Superstar
Well if you are going to do that, you mild as well include all of Malton with that plan. That means everything east of Dixie Rd north of the 401 to Brampton would become Toronto
It been said that everything west of 427 should be Mississauga, not Toronto and that comes from Toronto Ward councilors. One reason Mississauga took over the Toronto Lands at Renforth
salsa
Senior Member
Josh Matlow: "No one in Toronto knows how the proposed transit plan will be funded. Mississauga has told us how it's not going to be funded. "
crs1026
Superstar
The unfortunate thing about this little drama - which Toronto walked right into, we had remarked in this forum that it was coming - is that we have poisoned the room for a constructive conversation about what the transit needs around the airport are and how to address them. There are huge numbers of jobs here but travel is auto-centric and transit has a huge opportunity to gain market share here.
We need to stop talking about this as an LRT to the Airport. Few travellers are going to schlepp their suitcases onto an LRT, any more than they are onto the 192 bus (many travellers do use 192, but the greater number who don't swear that the Cubs will win the World Series before they take a bus to the airport, and those who live along Eglinton probably feel the same way). What the LRT could be is a link to the Viscount hub which in turn could spawn useful connections to any number of places in that job-rich zone.
The ridership data is very poor at the moment, but that's because so many airport workers have chosen to live in other places where auto access to their work is easier. We need to keep in mind that people do move around. There is (for the moment) affordable housing along Eglinton from Keele over to about Dufferin, with intensification on the horizon. Ample reason to believe that if we provided good transit in the airport zone itself, a fast speedy link from further east (ie an LRT) would boost those numbers over a 5-to-10 year period. And, if we had that constructive conversation, we would be better able to quantify how much benefit Mississauga will get from that, and create more onus on CofM to pay part of the tab.
Annexing the airport is a really bad idea. Ottawa is looking to download air terminals, not support them. They would probably love to pass Pearson to Toronto - and let Toronto pay for it. Mississauga would likely do the same. Imagine what Toronto Council would do if they had that ball to juggle on top of their current disfunction. I bet Bonnie Crombie would love to have that last laugh on the matter.
- Paul
We need to stop talking about this as an LRT to the Airport. Few travellers are going to schlepp their suitcases onto an LRT, any more than they are onto the 192 bus (many travellers do use 192, but the greater number who don't swear that the Cubs will win the World Series before they take a bus to the airport, and those who live along Eglinton probably feel the same way). What the LRT could be is a link to the Viscount hub which in turn could spawn useful connections to any number of places in that job-rich zone.
The ridership data is very poor at the moment, but that's because so many airport workers have chosen to live in other places where auto access to their work is easier. We need to keep in mind that people do move around. There is (for the moment) affordable housing along Eglinton from Keele over to about Dufferin, with intensification on the horizon. Ample reason to believe that if we provided good transit in the airport zone itself, a fast speedy link from further east (ie an LRT) would boost those numbers over a 5-to-10 year period. And, if we had that constructive conversation, we would be better able to quantify how much benefit Mississauga will get from that, and create more onus on CofM to pay part of the tab.
Annexing the airport is a really bad idea. Ottawa is looking to download air terminals, not support them. They would probably love to pass Pearson to Toronto - and let Toronto pay for it. Mississauga would likely do the same. Imagine what Toronto Council would do if they had that ball to juggle on top of their current disfunction. I bet Bonnie Crombie would love to have that last laugh on the matter.
- Paul
Cobra
Senior Member
The day will come when they'll knock on our door for a subway... I think we'll pass Mississauga
Cobra
Senior Member
Ottawa is looking at privatizing the airports, not downloading them. Hypothetically, Toronto getting the Pearson lands means massive tax revenues
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Nope - the airport pay minimal taxes to the municipality - Hazel fought the GTAA and lost on that front due to federal legislation.
Not that annexation is happening, but what's worthwhile isn't the airport but the industries/firms around it. That's what generating the tax revenues.
AoD
Cobra
Senior Member
I didn't know. Thanks for the info.
I know when Montreal was 1 city-1 island and they were having the referendums to undo amalgamation, the mayor retaining Dorval and the airport lands was a huge victory according to him.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Well, $470 million a lot of money for an ordinary person, but not that much compared to the cost of other transit projects currently on the table.
Frankly, I am a bit suspicious of such evaluations. Any ridership forecasts are sensitive to the input parameters that have to be chosen rather than calculated. If those input parameters are wrong, then the results will be off even though all calculations are correct.
Many cities whose size is comparable to Toronto found it useful to build a rail link to the airport; and in some cases, they run both express service and a more local service. It is hard for me to understand why Toronto should be so different.
Rainforest
Senior Member
That would be an interesting solution
But, it does not really change the financial component; Toronto still has to pay for that LRT.If anything, the Airport and a portion of LRT being located in Misssissauga makes it easier to beg the province to partly fund that portion.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The same logic in getting York Region to fund 40% of TYSSE expenditures should be applied here. $470 million split between the City of Mississauga and GTAA sounds more than reasonable to me.
Zach6668
Active Member
Crosslinx will be providing maintenance for 30 years, yes. That is not the same as operating transit service, of course.
Maintenance of the structures and public areas deemed to be ECLRT responsibility will be provided by Crosslinx until the handover date in 30 years. (There are maps of demarcation being produced and negotiated that show which areas will be TTC responsibility (where existing TTC facilities exist), ECLRT responsibility and City responsibility in terms of maintenance of public spaces.)
I would have assumed that the Province would be paying for this since it is part of the original project agreement, but who knows. Crosslinx will get their money, but I'm sure the Province could ask or negotiate that the city contribute.
Zach6668
Active Member
What kind of luggage do you people use that "schlepping" it onto a low-floor, fully accessible LRT is some kind of undue burden?
Millions of people travel to and from airports all over the world on public transit. I see people on buses, the subway, even streetcars with roller suitcases all of the time.
If the ECLRT is convenient, cheaper, and faster than driving a car or ordering a taxi or a limo, people will use it to get to the airport. I'm pretty sure it will be all of those things.
(Now, we can have a fair and honest discussion about how much ridership the airport itself will actually generate - that's a completely different story)