[BurlOak]

I'm always shocked how despite the prominence of this project, that many don't seem to know about it. I bumped into a young, intelligent, engineer who lives in Toronto and takes transit a lot. They made an off-hand comment about it's a shame there's no subway on Eglinton. They were surprised (and pleased) when I mentioned this project and it should be open in 2020.

Maybe TTC should do what Montreal does, and put under-construction projects on the subway map ...

Do you have some inside information that the line will become buried or elevated through Scarborough - either of which would probably be considered "subway".

 

[Catenary]

Yeah, don't want the system map looking too much like a fantasy map, haha. Only add the line when it's passed the point of no cancellation.

At what point is that? When it opens? After it's running and all the bugs are out of the rolling stock? I'm not sure there is a point of no cancellation when it comes to Ontario transit projects!

 

[nfitz]

Do you have some inside information that the line will become buried or elevated through Scarborough - either of which would probably be considered "subway".

No ... I was only talking about the 13-km underground tunnel in old Toronto and York, not Scarborough.

 

[innsertnamehere]

At what point is that? When it opens? After it's running and all the bugs are out of the rolling stock? I'm not sure there is a point of no cancellation when it comes to Ontario transit projects!

I would probably add all projects at an arbitrary "two year from completion" date. I.E. Spadina should be added next year, while the Eglinton LRT should be added in 2018.

 

[gweed123]

I would probably add all projects at an arbitrary "two year from completion" date. I.E. Spadina should be added next year, while the Eglinton LRT should be added in 2018.

That's what I was thinking. Realistically, when most of the tunnelling is completed, I would say that's past the cancellation point. 2 years to go is a safe bet for the project being 'safe'.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'd argue that it is essentially past cancellation after the tunnel borer has entered the shaft and started digging, as extraction would not be available until it reached its end point. (they don't exactly have a reverse gear) I.E. once the tunnel borers start on Eglinton this summer they will HAVE to dig to at least Eglinton west before being lifted out and cancelled. Right now Spadina is well beyond the cancellation point, it probably reached it early last summer. All of the station pits have been dug and several of the bores have been completed. (407-steeles is starting right now)

 

[gweed123]

I'd argue that it is essentially past cancellation after the tunnel borer has entered the shaft and started digging, as extraction would not be available until it reached its end point. (they don't exactly have a reverse gear) I.E. once the tunnel borers start on Eglinton this summer they will HAVE to dig to at least Eglinton west before being lifted out and cancelled. Right now Spadina is well beyond the cancellation point, it probably reached it early last summer. All of the station pits have been dug and several of the bores have been completed. (407-steeles is starting right now)

But even then, theoretically the line could be cancelled from Eglinton West eastbound. TBMs in the ground are only a guarantee for the section that they're digging. I know that it's really sad that this even needs to be considered, but such is the transit infrastructure situation these days.

Within 2 years of completion, the TBM work is largely complete (maybe a small section or two to go), and it's mainly station work, laying track, etc after that.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

I'd argue that it is essentially past cancellation after the tunnel borer has entered the shaft and started digging, as extraction would not be available until it reached its end point. (they don't exactly have a reverse gear) I.E. once the tunnel borers start on Eglinton this summer they will HAVE to dig to at least Eglinton west before being lifted out and cancelled. Right now Spadina is well beyond the cancellation point, it probably reached it early last summer. All of the station pits have been dug and several of the bores have been completed. (407-steeles is starting right now)

The TBM can be shut down, abandoned, and the tunnel plugged. It'd be a dumb move that even I doubt Hudak would push for.

 

[DavidH]

The TBM can be shut down, abandoned, and the tunnel plugged. It'd be a dumb move that even I doubt Hudak would push for.

Hell, Hudak could take over the TTC and shut down the entire subway system if he wanted to. That's not going to happen.

The reality here is that breaking these contracts would be more-or-less equivalent to the Oakville hydro plant cancellation he's been castigating the Liberals for - spending a whole lot of money for nothing. Doing so would absolutely kill the credibility that he's worked hard to establish since the past election.

The danger with Hudak is the good chance that new projects will not happen. "Folks, as my good friend in Toronto reminds me, the people want subways, subways, subways - but we can't afford to pay for them right now. Instead, I'm going to propose a tax cut that will let you buy yourself a bigger SUV."

Sigh. "Obi Wynne Kenobi, you are our only hope."

 

[rbt]

The TBM can be shut down, abandoned, and the tunnel plugged. It'd be a dumb move that even I doubt Hudak would push for.

Given operation subsidies, a line can be shut-down at any time even after it has been constructed. New York certainly has a history of abandoning tunnels and stations. The G line came very close to being permenantly shutdown during the recession when sales tax revenue was lowest.


There is a point when 75% of the financial obligations will have been met. That is, cancelling the project would still result in paying 75% of the total cost. I choose 75% because the various Tax Payer Federations have shown they also prefer to push to completion at that point; and they're the stingiest groups with spending.

 

[gweed123]

Hell, Hudak could take over the TTC and shut down the entire subway system if he wanted to. That's not going to happen.

The reality here is that breaking these contracts would be more-or-less equivalent to the Oakville hydro plant cancellation he's been castigating the Liberals for - spending a whole lot of money for nothing. Doing so would absolutely kill the credibility that he's worked hard to establish since the past election.

The danger with Hudak is the good chance that new projects will not happen. "Folks, as my good friend in Toronto reminds me, the people want subways, subways, subways - but we can't afford to pay for them right now. Instead, I'm going to propose a tax cut that will let you buy yourself a bigger SUV."

Sigh. "Obi Wynne Kenobi, you are our only hope."

I can definitely see that happening. He's already said "we'll build subways after the budget is balanced". So what's the first thing he's going to do if elected? Make the budget hole even deeper by giving a tax cut. Brilliant.

Eglinton is probably safe, but given the start-up times of the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs, I give those about a 40% chance of actually being built. The SRT will only get done because a) the existing line is falling apart, and b) it can be grouped in with the Eglinton line.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Designing the Future of Eglinton: Public Workshops

From thecrosstown.ca website, at this link:

We want to hear from you! Join us at any of the three public workshops on February 19, 26 and 28, 2013 to tell us what you think about Eglinton’s future with the coming Metrolinx investment in transit infrastructure.

Metrolinx will be presenting preliminary designs for stations, including some inforamtion that was not part of previous consultations. Designs for LRT surface stops and alignments will also be shown. The Kennedy Mobility Hub and parts of the line that are currently under review by Metrolinx will not be discussed at these events.

Drop in any time between 5:30 and 9:00pm. The presentations & workshop will start at 6:30pm. We look forward to seeing you there.

You can download the PDF notice from this link:

We need to hear from you! Join us at any of three Public Workshops.
Tell us what you think about Eglinton’s future with the coming Metrolinx investment in transit infrastructure:

• How to encourage significant mixed-use growth through well-designed, right-sized buildings that are predominantly mid rise in scale
• How to create a beautiful, vibrant public realm and streetscape that offers a high quality of life for neighbourhoods as well as the many people who will live, work and shop on Eglinton
• How on-street uses can interact with the new Eglinton-Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) stops and stations

Additionally, Metrolinx will be presenting preliminary designs for stations, including some that were not part of previous consultations. Designs for LRT surface stops and alignments will also be shown. The Kennedy Mobility Hub and parts of the line that are currently under review by Metrolinx will not be discussed at these events.

All Workshops: Drop in any time between 5:30 and 9:00pm
Presentation & Workshop start at 6:30pm

Transportation Study - Notice of Commencement
The underground portion of the new Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) will run for 12km between Black Creek Drive and Brentcliffe (which may be extended to Don Mills). As a result of this new underground transit service, some bus/carpool lanes may no longer be needed. As part of EGLINTON connects, the City of Toronto is studying options for making the best use of this roadway space to serve all users, including pedestrians, cyclists and motorists.

This Transportation Study will follow a Municipal Class Environmental Assessment (Class EA) Schedule ‘C’ process, which includes identifying the problem/opportunity, developing and evaluating a reasonable range of alternative solutions, and providing opportunities for public input.

West Workshop
Tuesday, February 19, 2013
York Memorial Collegiate Institute
2690 Eglinton Avenue West

Central Workshop
Thursday, February 28, 2013
Forest Hill Collegiate Institute
730 Eglinton Avenue West

East Workshop
Tuesday, February 26, 2013
Noor Cultural Center
123 Wynford Drive

 

[junctionist]

It'll be interesting to see if they took all those comments for unique design and art in the public realm (the stations) seriously.

 

[BurlOak]

Eglinton is probably safe, but given the start-up times of the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs, I give those about a 40% chance of actually being built. The SRT will only get done because a) the existing line is falling apart, and b) it can be grouped in with the Eglinton line.

If they (Hudak) elevated ECLRT and cancelled FWLRT and SELRT, they could save money, improve a major transit line and defer the not so urgent lines at the top of Toronto. Use the money saved to pay down the deficit, and then at the subsequent election* campaign for the DRL. I would probably support this scenario.

* - To be able to do this, there would need to be an election in 2013 and the subsequent election would be Fall of 2017 (still earlier than the current start date for the FWLRT.

 

[Ramako]

Gotta say, I wouldn't mind having the Eglinton line built, but Finch and Sheppard canned so that the money can be spent on a DRL.