[Jaye101]

^^ If we cannot get all these built it will due to lack of will as opposed to lack of capability.

 

[rbt]

Gotta say, I wouldn't mind having the Eglinton line built, but Finch and Sheppard canned so that the money can be spent on a DRL.

You would trade Finch, Sheppard and DRL for just the DRL?

Getting additional funding for the DRL is a relatively easy thing to sell.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You would trade Finch, Sheppard and DRL for just the DRL?

Getting additional funding for the DRL is a relatively easy thing to sell.

For me personally, if it were DRL vs. Sheppard-Finch the DRL would easily win. No competition. But ideally all would be funded which is what I expect to happen. DRL funding dosen't seem like it will be an issue. Everyone agrees that it is needed.

 

[BurlOak]

You would trade Finch, Sheppard and DRL for just the DRL?

Getting additional funding for the DRL is a relatively easy thing to sell.

I think a DRL from Downtown to Pape would be a difficult sell. It would be seen as serving only the downtown - and rightly so since I do not think enough people from East will make the transfer to make any real difference on the Yonge-Bloor Station dwell times. Dropping Finch and Sheppard could easily push the DRL up to Eglinton.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If they (Hudak) elevated ECLRT and cancelled FWLRT and SELRT, they could save money, improve a major transit line and defer the not so urgent lines at the top of Toronto. Use the money saved to pay down the deficit, and then at the subsequent election* campaign for the DRL. I would probably support this scenario.

* - To be able to do this, there would need to be an election in 2013 and the subsequent election would be Fall of 2017 (still earlier than the current start date for the FWLRT.

I hope this Tim Hudak character or the PCs gets into some kind of serious scandal. We need them out of power till Wave 2 has begun construction.

 

[Johnny Au]

I hope this Tim Hudak character or the PCs gets into some kind of serious scandal. We need them out of power till Wave 2 has begun construction.

We need to prevent Hudak from doing what Harris did with Eglinton. We need to have the Eglinton Crosstown line dug far enough that filling it up would be more expensive than completing it.

Yes, the DRL should be built up to Eglinton.

 

[rbt]

I think a DRL from Downtown to Pape would be a difficult sell. It would be seen as serving only the downtown - and rightly so since I do not think enough people from East will make the transfer to make any real difference on the Yonge-Bloor Station dwell times. Dropping Finch and Sheppard could easily push the DRL up to Eglinton.

I expect the DRL will be the first project funded if Metrolinx receives taxation capabilitis. Second will be LakeShore electrification, and 3rd/4th/5th are various LRT projects (Mississauga, Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo).

If there is additional funding, DRL will be a part of it.

If there is not additional funding, Sheppard/Finch money won't be sufficient to build a DRL.


Offering up Sheppard/Finch for cancellation will not accelerate the DRL, it will only result in the cancellation of Sheppard/Finch. An Eglinton extension of the DRL will not be considered until the first phase is funded and nearing completion.

Fight for new money. Redistributing money already allocated will only help the provincial debt levels but not transit.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The DRL would have to go at least up to Eglinton in the first phase so it would start to act as an Eastern equivalent of the Spadina Line.

 

[nfitz]

"obi wynne kenobi, you are our only hope."

lol

 

[BurlOak]

I expect the DRL will be the first project funded if Metrolinx receives taxation capabilitis. Second will be LakeShore electrification, and 3rd/4th/5th are various LRT projects (Mississauga, Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo).

If there is additional funding, DRL will be a part of it.

If there is not additional funding, Sheppard/Finch money won't be sufficient to build a DRL.


Offering up Sheppard/Finch for cancellation will not accelerate the DRL, it will only result in the cancellation of Sheppard/Finch. An Eglinton extension of the DRL will not be considered until the first phase is funded and nearing completion.

Fight for new money. Redistributing money already allocated will only help the provincial debt levels but not transit.

The problem with new money is that it needs to be sustainable. I see several ways to raise money.

1) Detested "taxes" that are introduced by one government, but then cancelled by the next one. I would put the photo radar in this category.
2) Disliked taxes, that are very unpopular at first but then tolerated. I would say GST and HST would be in this category.
3) Accepted taxes, such as those brought in by referendum (or as part of a party platform). The US has examples of these.
4) Adored taxes, those that a strong majority of people just love. I don't think these exist in the real world.

The trouble is that a sizable proportion of Toronto's population did not like the current transit plan and wanted "subways". (Actually I think most mayoralty candidates campaigned on something other than Transit City). Note that the term "subway" was not rigidly defined. By ignoring their wishes and not being able to find a compromise to satisfy the essence of the public's desires, it will be much harder to convince them that the extra tax (i.e. tolls, fees, etc) would actually be put to good use. Thus, almost any tax that is imposed will fall into the first category. I think if ECLRT was built as a subway, and Sheppard and Finch were canceled, then it would be easier to bring in new taxes to build the DRL. I also think the farther north the DRL goes the better is can be sold, and the better it can perform its function of relieving the Yonge line - either by reducing transfers from Bloor or reducing transfers from buses at all stations farther north.

 

[innsertnamehere]

People wanted subways because they equated anything on the surface as streetcars. People in this city don't know any form of transit other than subways, so that is obviously what they want.

As for funding order, I wouldn't be surprised if the DRL is further to the back of the list. I expect the Kitchener electrification, Hamilton LRT, and Hurontario LRT in the first part, with the DRL and Yonge extension in the second part, and lakeshore electrification last after half hour service has been running for a while.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

People wanted subways because they equated anything on the surface as streetcars. People in this city don't know any form of transit other than subways, so that is obviously what they want.

And this is exactly why UT members are the only ones qualified to make transit decisions for Toronto.

 

[11th]

People wanted subways because they equated anything on the surface as streetcars. People in this city don't know any form of transit other than subways, so that is obviously what they want.

Ask yourself this, is ROW unique to LRT systems, or can streetcars (or "trams") systems also have them ; the same goes for signal priority. And do streetcars that have ROW uses simple low-level platforms? It's easy why some people will dismiss the TTC LRT as rebranded streetcars. (Except for the tunneled part of the Eglinton Crosstown, but we all know that's a subway running LRVs)

 

[gweed123]

I expect the DRL will be the first project funded if Metrolinx receives taxation capabilitis. Second will be LakeShore electrification, and 3rd/4th/5th are various LRT projects (Mississauga, Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo).

If there is additional funding, DRL will be a part of it.

If there is not additional funding, Sheppard/Finch money won't be sufficient to build a DRL.


Offering up Sheppard/Finch for cancellation will not accelerate the DRL, it will only result in the cancellation of Sheppard/Finch. An Eglinton extension of the DRL will not be considered until the first phase is funded and nearing completion.

Fight for new money. Redistributing money already allocated will only help the provincial debt levels but not transit.

Sheppard/Finch money definitely wouldn't be enough for a DRL, but Toronto may be able to cover the difference if they have the political will to do so.

Toronto I think is realizing that the DRL is a necessity, and that they're going to build it, one way or another. It'll just be a lot easier if the Province is on board as well.

 

[rbt]

Sheppard/Finch money definitely wouldn't be enough for a DRL, but Toronto may be able to cover the difference if they have the political will to do so.

The easiest way to do it is direct current operating subsidies into capital through a 30% fare hike.

I'm not sure we would go for a 10% property tax hike (5% for DRL, the other 5% is for vote buying).

Nearly every other option requires provincial legislation. A Toronto sales tax won't happen but a GTA sales tax for Metrolinx could.

Toronto I think is realizing that the DRL is a necessity, and that they're going to build it, one way or another. It'll just be a lot easier if the Province is on board as well.

The Province and Feds don't have an option but to get on board. It's their revenue streams that are impacted by congestion in Toronto, not the cities. Toronto doesn't have much economic oriented revenue.

The "do nothing" cost to the province is starting to get larger than the "build anything possible" cost.


In fact, I wonder if the new property tax revenue from new downtown condo buildings built as a result of congestion might even outweight the added costs congestion adds to fire/police service. TTC can get away with annual fare increases and a static operating subsidy.