The argument that office and residential are incompatible makes no sense. The idea of building offices for 50,000 people with zero housing also makes no sense.

The city’s plan for the area was a starting point for future amendments and litigation. It’s just happening earlier than might have been expected.
 
AlexBozikovic said:
The argument that office and residential are incompatible makes no sense. The idea of building offices for 50,000 people with zero housing also makes no sense.

The city’s plan for the area was a starting point for future amendments and litigation. It’s just happening earlier than might have been expected.
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The City's argument—that if it lets in any residential, it won't be able to stop more from coming in subsequently—is pretty sad. If they really cannot stop more residential beyond a zoned amount (assuming new zoning on the site provides for reasonable densities in the first place) then it's time to overhaul the system, province-level down. Not that I'd trust this particular provincial government to write zoning regs I'd want to stick with, and not that I'd want the City given powers to stop all appeals of its zoning… but there needs to be some fairly solid zoning that would allow the City to zone some residential without worrying that all of the land could be flipped that way. We don't want a dead zone here after 6 PM, we want a mini Canary Wharf, a mini-downtown, and Canary Wharf has residential.

42
 
interchange42 said:
The City's argument—that if it lets in any residential, it won't be able to stop more from coming in subsequently—is pretty sad. If they really cannot stop more residential beyond a zoned amount (assuming new zoning on the site provides for reasonable densities in the first place) then it's time to overhaul the system, province-level down. Not that I'd trust this particular provincial government to write zoning regs I'd want to stick with, and not that I'd want the City given powers to stop all appeals of its zoning… but there needs to be some fairly solid zoning that would allow the City to zone some residential without worrying that all of the land could be flipped that way. We don't want a dead zone here after 6 PM, we want a mini Canary Wharf, a mini-downtown, and Canary Wharf has residential.

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Noting that the residential at Canary Wharf is very new... and uber expensive and exclusive.
The Wood Wharf extension got away with just 25% affordable housing, despite Canary Wharf being the landowner, developer and builder... so could maximise profit at all three levels... :rolleyes:
Copying bits of Canary Wharf is good - especially transport links - but I wouldn't copy everything - especially the "private police", few entrances in and out and having one landowner own a vast area of East London....

Yes, some reasonable residential at East Harbour would be fine imo, especially if you've got office at podium levels. Would provide a good transition to the surrounding areas too.
You don't want something that's just a shopping mall, or just CityPlace 2.0, or just a copy of the Financial District - in my opinion, you want a dense, walkable mixed use development anchored around a GO/Ontario Line station.
 
A new rendering of the East Harbour Transit hub.

From The Star article.

www.thestar.com

Toronto’s Canary Wharf? Ambitious plans for East Harbour neighbourhood include homes, jobs and an Ontario Line transit hub

Some fear residential towers could reduce the potential for high-paying employment on the old Unilever soap factory site.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

1623000995508.png
 
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From one of the new documents on the City development site

The proposed redevelopment of the Subject Site will include a number of new buildings with primarily office, retail, residential and other amenity uses (such as restaurants, entertainment, arts and culture uses), as well as hotel and institutional uses. Based on estimates generated by the Master Plan the total proposed Cadillac Fairview development will include approximately 1,230,500m2 (13,244,992ft2) of total gross building area, including 892,055m2 (9,602,000ft2) of office floor area, 36,046m2 (387,996ft2) of retail floor area, and 302,399m2 (3,254,996ft2) of residential floor area. The development will also include a new transit hub adjacent to the Subject Site. Although a design has not yet been finalized, it is estimated that this transit hub will have total floor area of approximately 26,013m2. Although these areas are not within the subject lands for which subdivision is being applied, an estimate of floor area is being included in the analysis of this report because the transit terminal is intended to be delivered in time to serve Phase 1 of the Subject Site.

The ultimate development of the Unilever Precinct is anticipated to include approximately 1,980,265m2 (21,315,395ft2) of total floor area, including 1,586,858m2 (17,080,797ft2) of office floor area, 64,995m2 (699,600ft2) of retail floor area, and 302,399m2 (3,254,996ft2) of residential floor area, plus the area of the adjacent transit terminal (26,013m2). The Cadillac Fairview lands and the transit hub are being assessed as a part of this report, although the transit hub is beyond the boundaries of the municipal approvals application.

The Subject Site is intended to be implemented in four (4) phases; however, the ultimate phasing will depend on market absorption. The development plan includes two (2) new major municipal roadways; Broadview Avenue and East Harbour Boulevard. Broadview Avenue will be extended through the Subject Site from Eastern Avenue to Lake Shore Boulevard East, and East Harbour Boulevard will be extended through the Subject Site from Don Roadway to Booth Avenue. The implementation of Broadview Avenue will extend under the existing Metrolinx rail corridor and will include Light Rail Transit. The Master Plan also contemplates an additional four (4) new streets to provide access through the development and connect it to the surrounding roads. Another important aspect of this development is the planned multi-modal transit hub along the Metrolinx rail corridor at the intersection of Broadview Avenue. The proposed development plan will also include a series of internal private driveways to service the proposed buildings. Open space and urban plazas will be provided, as well as a number of pedestrian corridors and connections.
 
17 million sq.ft. office space is nuts. That's the equivalent of 10 Scotia Plazas. I just realized that's more than Canary Wharf. Starting to sink in how massive this proposal really is.

Going by the proposed res footage it sounds like 4-5,000 units planned.
 
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ChesterCopperpot said:
From one of the new documents on the City development site

The proposed redevelopment of the Subject Site will include a number of new buildings with primarily office, retail, residential and other amenity uses (such as restaurants, entertainment, arts and culture uses), as well as hotel and institutional uses. Based on estimates generated by the Master Plan the total proposed Cadillac Fairview development will include approximately 1,230,500m2 (13,244,992ft2) of total gross building area, including 892,055m2 (9,602,000ft2) of office floor area, 36,046m2 (387,996ft2) of retail floor area, and 302,399m2 (3,254,996ft2) of residential floor area. The development will also include a new transit hub adjacent to the Subject Site. Although a design has not yet been finalized, it is estimated that this transit hub will have total floor area of approximately 26,013m2. Although these areas are not within the subject lands for which subdivision is being applied, an estimate of floor area is being included in the analysis of this report because the transit terminal is intended to be delivered in time to serve Phase 1 of the Subject Site.

The ultimate development of the Unilever Precinct is anticipated to include approximately 1,980,265m2 (21,315,395ft2) of total floor area, including 1,586,858m2 (17,080,797ft2) of office floor area, 64,995m2 (699,600ft2) of retail floor area, and 302,399m2 (3,254,996ft2) of residential floor area, plus the area of the adjacent transit terminal (26,013m2). The Cadillac Fairview lands and the transit hub are being assessed as a part of this report, although the transit hub is beyond the boundaries of the municipal approvals application.

The Subject Site is intended to be implemented in four (4) phases; however, the ultimate phasing will depend on market absorption. The development plan includes two (2) new major municipal roadways; Broadview Avenue and East Harbour Boulevard. Broadview Avenue will be extended through the Subject Site from Eastern Avenue to Lake Shore Boulevard East, and East Harbour Boulevard will be extended through the Subject Site from Don Roadway to Booth Avenue. The implementation of Broadview Avenue will extend under the existing Metrolinx rail corridor and will include Light Rail Transit. The Master Plan also contemplates an additional four (4) new streets to provide access through the development and connect it to the surrounding roads. Another important aspect of this development is the planned multi-modal transit hub along the Metrolinx rail corridor at the intersection of Broadview Avenue. The proposed development plan will also include a series of internal private driveways to service the proposed buildings. Open space and urban plazas will be provided, as well as a number of pedestrian corridors and connections.
Click to expand...

Great Find!
 
Undead said:
17 million sq.ft. office space is nuts. That's the equivalent of 10 Scotia Plazas. I just realized that's more than Canary Wharf. Starting to sink in how massive this proposal really is.

Going by the proposed res footage it sounds like 4-5,000 units planned.
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At pre-pandemic levels of 100ft2 per employee that's 170,000 jobs for the office component alone.

If you assume, post-pandemic a loosening of that ........you're till looking at 115,000 jobs minimum; not including building staff (security, operations/management, cleaners).

All that, and retail; and housing for 7,000-10,000 people.

****

Interesting further note, typically in Toronto we run an employment to population ratio in the range of 60% (ie. the number of jobs is roughly 60% of the total population, which is reasonable when factoring in children/youth and retirees)

That means the above would translate into population growth for Toronto (and region) of ~300,000 at build-out. (office, retail, plus support position employment)
 
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So the big tube transit hub idea is gone?

Note: I hadn't been paying attention to this aspect for awhile...so I maybe late in asking that. >.<
 
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