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cplchanb said:
then again why cant they do concurrent activities? why cant ttc start doing their stuff at the same time? its all bureaucratic bullshit
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That's your take, but where's your data?

The two deficiencies that came to light recently were the bad paving at Sloan station, and the track alignment problem. Neither of these is minor or a bureaucratic matter.

If the TTC has noted other similar deficiencies, these are material and are much easier to correct before commissioning than in an operating state. TTC aren't perfect, but I trust their credentials when it comes to getting things ready for an opening day.

- Paul
 
This Global News article (Updated May 16, 2023 3:24 pm) has information from CTS' statement. I don't see a link to the full statement.

CTS said it had launched its legal challenge after “months of engagement” with Metrolinx about “challenges” the consortium said it faced. The consortium said it needed Metrolinx to finalize a contract for the Toronto Transit Commission to run the line once it was finished. In a statement, the group complained that “the TTC is able to make requests and provide input at any time, including at a late stage, that go beyond CTS’s contractual responsibilities,” despite not yet having a formal role in the project. In its statement, CTS said it had not “suspended or stopped any work” on the Eglinton LRT.
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Update: fully statement from CTS.

FwRYL9_WYBcuYTM
 
It's far too late to do anything of the sort - Crosslinx has the contract for operations and maintenance for the next 30 years. If the contract was halfway competently written, the penalties for cancellation will be astronomical.

No, we should have never entertained the idea of letting the private sector build public infrastructure to begin with. But it's too late to cry about spilled milk now. We have to live with the consequences of our decisions.
 
Again, i thought there was a signed operating agreement? was there? or is this saying they are just simply frustrated with TTC's requests
“the TTC is able to make requests and provide input at any time, including at a late stage, that go beyond CTS’s contractual responsibilities,” despite not yet having a formal role in the project
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last time this was discussed by the city:
That doesnt seem like a hard written operating agreement to me, unless theyre talking about the preliminary one back in 2012

Operating agreement reached for Toronto's new light rail transit lines

/CNW/ - Metrolinx and the Toronto Transit Commission have reached an agreement on the operations and maintenance of Toronto's four new provincially-funded...
www.newswire.ca www.newswire.ca
 
Only new insights in this Global article published at 6am today are from an unnamed source and even then I don't think it's anything new people hear wouldn't have understood.

The issues, the person with knowledge of Metrolinx operations said, run deep.

The official said that Metrolinx was currently not able to run a train the length of the Eglinton Crosstown route at normal speed due to technical issues with the track.
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Allandale25 said:
Only new insights in this Global article published at 6am today are from an unnamed source and even then I don't think it's anything new people hear wouldn't have understood.
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Is this about that track discrepancy thing from a few weeks ago? its a dispute obviously, but I wonder whos right here.
 
crs1026 said:
That's your take, but where's your data?

The two deficiencies that came to light recently were the bad paving at Sloan station, and the track alignment problem. Neither of these is minor or a bureaucratic matter.

If the TTC has noted other similar deficiencies, these are material and are much easier to correct before commissioning than in an operating state. TTC aren't perfect, but I trust their credentials when it comes to getting things ready for an opening day.

- Paul
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im going by their public statement... "we are ready to commence operator training as soon as its safe to...." how safe do they need it to be? laboratory safe? union safe? looks like they havnt even started anything unless other statements or sources say otherwise.
 
Allandale25 said:
Only new insights in this Global article published at 6am today are from an unnamed source and even then I don't think it's anything new people hear wouldn't have understood.
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well its not new... their incompetent boss already made it public that the track is mms off a few weeks ago
 
Voltz said:
It should have remained a TTC project all along,
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uhhh.... no...?? look how the university extension turned out to be....
its damned if you do damned if you dont... the big lesson in all this is:

1. contractors should not undercut on their fees in desperation to get their jobs without the expectations they will be on the hook for extras (unless its for acts of god events). they cant rely on value engineering and corner cutting to recoupt their profits
2. ML cant blindly take the lowest bid. they are usually too good to be true. im sure most taxpayers would be fine with higher bid prices if it means fewer extras and delays
3. issues happen all the time. DONT be like verster and publicly burn the bridge like what he did. it only will lead to finger pointing and litigation like now
4. verster's contract cannot be renewed.
 
The TTC is not exactly a paragon of competence, but you're not equating Crosslinx's biblically poor performance on the Crosstown to the Spadina subway extension, surely?

The Crosstown has been, by a considerable margin, the worst project in the modern history of the Toronto. Whatever snags the project would have encountered under the management of the TTC, and I'm sure there would have been many, I am confident based on past performance that it would have come nowhere close to the display of incompetence Metrolinx and their poorly chosen contractors have shown.

cplchanb said:
1. contractors should not undercut on their fees in desperation to get their jobs without the expectations they will be on the hook for extras (unless its for acts of god events). they cant rely on value engineering and corner cutting to recoupt their profits
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This lesson will not be learned, for this is literally the basis of modern capitalism. Make promises you can't keep and try to keep them by milking your employees, clients, or tax payers for everything that they've got, rather than owning up to your fuck up. This is not some corrupt scheme, this is what constitutes "good business" in this age.

There are two key takeaways from this project:

1) Keep the God damned capitalists away from transit;
2) Disband Metrolinx. They are not fit for purpose.
 
T3G said:
The TTC is not exactly a paragon of competence, but you're not equating Crosslinx's biblically poor performance on the Crosstown to the Spadina subway extension, surely?

The Crosstown has been, by a considerable margin, the worst project in the modern history of the Toronto. Whatever snags the project would have encountered under the management of the TTC, and I'm sure there would have been many, I am confident based on past performance that it would have come nowhere close to the display of incompetence Metrolinx and their poorly chosen contractors have shown.


This lesson will not be learned, for this is literally the basis of modern capitalism. Make promises you can't keep and try to keep them by milking your employees, clients, or tax payers for everything that they've got, rather than owning up to your fuck up. This is not some corrupt scheme, this is what constitutes "good business" in this age.

There are two key takeaways from this project:

1) Keep the God damned capitalists away from transit;
2) Disband Metrolinx. They are not fit for purpose.
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my equivalence of the subway extension to this is that they are both years late and over; the former being particularly egregious since they only need to do half the distance, no need to go under an existing subway and yet it still took 10 years.
dont forget 2 managers were publicly fired for their mismanagement of the project.

regardless, theres no point in saying who failed more. they both suck at project management.
thats what happens when you get bureaucracy involved in construction.
 
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