[smallspy]

My point was that side platform terminal stations have shorter crossovers that require less time for the trains to go through them, and a train using the crossover is less likely to block an arriving or departing train. Also, placing the crossovers beyond the station is required so that one side is for loading and the other is for unloading.

But that's a completely and totally different scenario, and not one that you can retrofit into an existing situation. Which is what a lot of the existing conversation has been about thus far.

Couldn't you improve throughput with the crossover or crossover and pocket setup past the terminal station with step-back crewing?

My rough thought on how this would work for a single train is:

1. Train pulls in to it's right side track at terminal station
2. The next operator gets on the train at the terminal station
3. Train pulls into an empty tail track
4. New operator immediately takes over from initial operator
5. Train pulls out into the opposite track from step 1
6. Initial operator disembarks.
7. Train leaves the station

To me it seems like if you tried to pull off something similar with a crossover before the station, every time a train leaves the station via the crossover it would block the incoming track with its movements. With the above, incoming trains can still hit the platform while the train is being reversed in the tail track once they clear the switch(es) past the terminal station.

I'll admit, I have no idea how long step 4 would take for 2 operators to do the handover, but I'm assuming one would optimize the tail track infrastructure to increase train storage past the terminal to allow for an efficient operation. Is there some kind of signal issue where a train in the tail tracks somehow impacts any train coming behind it?

That is already done today to a degree, and is why the Yonge Subway is scheduled to be so frequent at rush hours. In fact, prior to the first lockdown the TTC was using a double-step-back during the morning rush hours - the crew would step off of the first train, and then take over the third train, giving them a bit of an extra break and helping build a bit more resiliancy back into the schedule. And none of it takes into account the physical limitations of the trackwork and signal system, which are the actual factors determining the minimum headways that the system is capable of.

The steps you are missing are:
- the amount of time the train occupies the interlocking plant in the first direction.
- the amount of time the signal system takes to detect that the interlocking plant is clear, and can then unlock the switches
- the amount of time for the points to move
- the amount of time for the signal system to lock the switches
- the amount of time for the signal system to determine that the routing beyond the interlocking is clear, and for how far
- the amount of time the train occupies the interlocking plant in the second direction
- the amount of time the signal system takes to detect that the interlocking plant is clear, and can then unlock the switches

Of these, the most critical steps - and the ones that are the most variable depending on the configuration of the trackwork - are the steps involving the trains actually traversing the crossovers and thus the amount of time that any single train occupies the interlocking. The other steps do take seconds, and while there is a bit of variability from signal system-to-signal system, by and large they all happen quick enough to not be a major factor.

Dan

 

[toronto647]

That's closer to 2km (less the stops and intersections), but your point is valid. But I can also understand not wanting to run the grass between Aga Khan and Victoria Park. I see the development potential and the hopes for what the Golden Mile can/might be, but that other chunk is much more limited in it's potential for an urban streetscape

I am a bit confused... Will there not be green grass on the whole portion of the above ground lrt? i.e. leslie to don mills and Aga khan to kennedy? if not which portions will have it and why not all of it? so dumb

 

[Jane2021]

I wonder when they will start training buses in the new bus terminals?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I am a bit confused... Will there not be green grass on the whole portion of the above ground lrt? i.e. leslie to don mills and Aga khan to kennedy? if not which portions will have it and why not all of it? so dumb

I think they said sections at stops won't have grass so that emergency vehicles can park at them when responding to calls there may be some other sections that won't have grass due to that reason as well or other reasons.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I wonder when they will start training buses in the new bus terminals?

Probably not until about a month or so before the official opening of the line as right now they are still a construction site.

 

[Tramways]

You need to check your facts. Here's the current snapshot of residences for sale along that stretch, courtesy the MLS web site. Of the residential properties shown, only two are listed for less than $1M, at $930K and $949K respectively. The rest are already over $1M, with one listed for $1.7M. Some are clearly already refurb'ed.

Interesting choice for facts.

MLS covers home _sales_ -- with this being one of the few remaining "affordable" (with help of Bank-of-Mom+Dad) areas within easy reach of downtown. This is an area that desperate buyers will settle for, after being priced out of their 1st-thru-9th choices.

What MLS does not cover is _rentals_.
A quick check of GoogleSatellite will reveal apartments bdgs on Marlee, around Keele/Trethewey and Dufferin+Vaughn.
Best of luck trying to "gentrify" those apartment blocks.

 

[drum118]

Got to love the timeline for subway lines

6-7 years for this phase is twice as long than the surface and triple the cost.

CROSSTOWN: Etobicoke residents will not have access to the Eglinton LRT before 2030​

 

[cplchanb]

Got to love the timeline for subway lines

6-7 years for this phase is twice as long than the surface and triple the cost.

CROSSTOWN: Etobicoke residents will not have access to the Eglinton LRT before 2030​

Well you reap what you sow. Had it been surface, or even elevated construction may have taken only half the time. Instead these Fordites whined and complained and forced them to plan it as a "subway".
Has noone learned already that subway in toronto is a snail pace project??? Not to mention the liklihood of bad soil just like what was discovered at Elginton/Yonge

 

[ARG1]

Got to love the timeline for subway lines

6-7 years for this phase is twice as long than the surface and triple the cost.

CROSSTOWN: Etobicoke residents will not have access to the Eglinton LRT before 2030​

How is this news though?

Again this is something we have known about the project for like months if not years and only now theStar is making an article about it?

 

[Amare]

Funny thing is, expropriating those townhouses and putting the line in a trench would've been a cheaper solution then what we're going to be getting. The whole reason this thing is being tunneled is because Doug and his brother graciously decided to sell off the Richview Expressway lands, so we're ultimately wasting money at the end of the day, but alas that train is gone.

But as was mentioned, I dont see how this is news. Actually in fact, we probably wouldnt have seen anything on this stretch period until ~2040 under John Tory's original plan. He put his hand up and volunteered to take the costs off the provinces books, and had the city to take control of the plan, ultimately putting it on the city's never ending list of approved but unfunded projects.

 

[ARG1]

Funny thing is, expropriating those townhouses and putting the line in a trench would've been a cheaper solution then what we're going to be getting. The whole reason this thing is being tunneled is because Doug and his brother graciously decided to sell off the Richview Expressway lands, so we're ultimately wasting money at the end of the day, but alas that train is gone.

But as was mentioned, I dont see how this is news. Actually in fact, we probably wouldnt have seen anything on this stretch period until ~2040 under John Tory's original plan. He put his hand up and volunteered to take the costs off the provinces books, and had the city to take control of the plan, ultimately putting it on the city's never ending list of approved but unfunded projects.

Well yes but actually no. Even with those townhouses there is plenty of room to plop an elevated guideway down the middle of the road, and even if its was a problem, you can have it mostly elevated and just have a short cut and cover tunnel near the townhouses. As far as I know there aren't any utilities under Eglinton there since that land was always made for an expressway so such a short tunnel would be relatively cheap and easy to make. The usage of TBMs here are just a massive ???? moment.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Well yes but actually no. Even with those townhouses there is plenty of room to plop an elevated guideway down the middle of the road, and even if its was a problem, you can have it mostly elevated and just have a short cut and cover tunnel near the townhouses. As far as I know there aren't any utilities under Eglinton there since that land was always made for an expressway so such a short tunnel would be relatively cheap and easy to make. The usage of TBMs here are just a massive ???? moment.

There is a natural gas pipeline under the Richview Expressway right-of-way. That is also why the stations will be on the NORTH side, because the pipeline is under the SOUTH side.

 

[Amare]

Well yes but actually no. Even with those townhouses there is plenty of room to plop an elevated guideway down the middle of the road, and even if its was a problem, you can have it mostly elevated and just have a short cut and cover tunnel near the townhouses. As far as I know there aren't any utilities under Eglinton there since that land was always made for an expressway so such a short tunnel would be relatively cheap and easy to make. The usage of TBMs here are just a massive ???? moment.

As @W. K. Lis mentioned, there is a very critical Enbridge gas pipeline that runs along part of Eglinton.

As for the elevated guideway, good luck getting that to fly in this neighborhood. This is an area that was vehemently against an at-grade LRT, just try and bring up an elevated guideway concept to them. For the residents in this area, it would be akin to another Gardiner Expressway going up.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

As @W. K. Lis mentioned, there is a very critical Enbridge gas pipeline that runs along part of Eglinton.

As for the elevated guideway, good luck getting that to fly in this neighborhood. This is an area that was vehemently against an at-grade LRT, just try and bring up an elevated guideway concept to them. For the residents in this area, it would be akin to another Gardiner Expressway going up.

That would also include Doug Ford and family living in the neighbourhood of Kipling & Eglinton. We all know how his family is against any surface public transit when he drives around in his SUV.

 

[ARG1]

As @W. K. Lis mentioned, there is a very critical Enbridge gas pipeline that runs along part of Eglinton.

As for the elevated guideway, good luck getting that to fly in this neighborhood. This is an area that was vehemently against an at-grade LRT, just try and bring up an elevated guideway concept to them. For the residents in this area, it would be akin to another Gardiner Expressway going up.

That doesn't really mean much. At grade LRTs are typically much worse forms of transit than metros especially in suburbia so while its possible there would be a lot of NIMBYism, its not exactly a guarantee per se.