[yurt2022]

I know they couldn't have foreseen this in hindsight, but with tunneling becoming vastly cheaper in recent years they should have opted to just do a C&C extension of the metro along Eglinton.

A lot of cities in North America are slowly finding out these weird ad-hoc LRT systems are often *more* expensive and less reliable than just building metro.

It's unfortunate that Toronto fell for the now declining LRT fad that struck North America. I've always believed that a subway along Eglinton (and in Scarborough) would serve our needs much better, especially in the future since the region has seen record growth over the years...

 

[yurt2022]

The Eglington LRT will at some point be replaced with a subway just like the Scarborough RT was.

How difficult would it be to retrofit the tunnelled section for heavy rail operation? From what I understand the ECLRT tunnels are pretty narrow and wouldn't support a typical sized subway vehicle like the TR/T1, which means we would need a specialized vehicle or a heavy (and expensive) rebuild of the tunnels.

 

[Bojaxs]

It's unfortunate that Toronto fell for the now declining LRT fad that struck North America. I've always believed that a subway along Eglinton (and in Scarborough) would serve our needs much better, especially in the future since the region has seen record growth over the years...

Nothing wrong with LRTs. The fad was low floor LRT's. There was nothing wrong with the normal, high floor LRT's. The C-Train in Calgary is a beauty.

But some politicians and urban planners in Canada insisted that they be closer to the ground so as to look more like a tram and make our cities look more European.

 

[Bojaxs]

How difficult would it be to retrofit the tunnelled section for heavy rail operation? From what I understand the ECLRT tunnels are pretty narrow and wouldn't support a typical sized subway vehicle like the TR/T1, which means we would need a specialized vehicle or a heavy (and expensive) rebuild of the tunnels.

TR/T1 are TTC gauge so they definitely wouldn't fit. But if the Hitachi trains for the Ontario line are standard gauge, then maybe at some point in the future we could upgrade the Eglington line to the same specs as the Ontario line?

 

[yurt2022]

Nothing wrong with LRTs. The fad was low floor LRT's. There was nothing wrong with the normal, high floor LRT's. The C-Train in Calgary is a beauty.

But some politicians and urban planners in Canada insisted that they be closer to the ground so as to look more like a tram and make our cities look more European.

View attachment 611264

Oh yeah I completely overlooked high floor LRVs. They would definitely work better.

 

[yurt2022]

Nothing wrong with LRTs. The fad was low floor LRT's. There was nothing wrong with the normal, high floor LRT's. The C-Train in Calgary is a beauty.

But some politicians and urban planners in Canada insisted that they be closer to the ground so as to look more like a tram and make our cities look more European.

View attachment 611264

One thing I also don't hope to see on Line 5.

The Flexity Outlooks on Toronto's streetcar system seem to have alot of rocking and general "instability" when accelerating and coming to a stop (and even some during static motion). Is this something we're also going to see on Line 5 due to the low floor design of the vehicles/the design of the flexity itself, or is it just due to poor track conditions of Toronto's tram network?

 

[T3G]

Nothing wrong with LRTs. The fad was low floor LRT's. There was nothing wrong with the normal, high floor LRT's. The C-Train in Calgary is a beauty.

But some politicians and urban planners in Canada insisted that they be closer to the ground so as to look more like a tram and make our cities look more European.

None of this is true. The low floor LRT was chosen because the high floor ones require much larger and more intrusive loading platforms, if you want to provide accessibility. Being situated higher up, you'd need longer platforms with ramps at shallow angles. Going low floor is cheaper and more pragmatic.

There is no conspiracy to make the city look more European.

 

[smallspy]

In the case of Eglinton West, its unlikely C&C would've been that much cheaper. Part of the problem is that there is a massive Gas Mainline running underneath Eglinton at that section, meaning that any and all construction would've required them to do a massive and expensive relocation of that mainline. That's why if you noticed, all of the stations for Eglinton West aren't located under Eglinton, but rather directly north of the Intersection, with entrances being limited to the north side of the street (I'm too lazy to go back a few hundred pages to find the station layout images).

The gas main is at the southern edge of the former Richview ROW.

The stations were built offset from Eglinton proper because Metrolinx realized that doing so will save money to construct. Nevermind the fact that it makes the stations harder to access for pedestrians.....

Dan

 

[smallspy]

How difficult would it be to retrofit the tunnelled section for heavy rail operation? From what I understand the ECLRT tunnels are pretty narrow and wouldn't support a typical sized subway vehicle like the TR/T1, which means we would need a specialized vehicle or a heavy (and expensive) rebuild of the tunnels.

You understand incorrectly - the tunnels for the Crosstown are actually wider than those for the previously built subway tunnels. The dynamic envelope for the pantograph is quite large, and required the use of a correspondingly larger tunnel bore.

As for everything else - well, everything else would have to be changed. Track gauge, power voltage & circuitry, platform heights, escalators, elevators, etc.

Dan

 

[stevedean]

I think its hilarious that people are debating retrofitting or building new tunnels/building new bridges, for a line that has taken 13+ years to be built, and isn't even open yet...

 

[Bojaxs]

Being situated higher up, you'd need longer platforms with ramps at shallow angles.

So?
People in wheel chairs can still access the C-train.

Ramp height seems to be the only advantage low floor has over high floor. Name another advantage of low floor.

Going low floor is cheaper and more pragmatic.

No it's not. The low floor trains have higher maintenance costs. Fixed bogies vs the more conventional bogies on a high floor train.

I think its hilarious that people are debating retrofitting or building new tunnels/building new bridges, for a line that has taken 13+ years to be built, and isn't even open yet...

Because it was a very silly idea to use low floor LRTs.

 

[stevedean]

Because it was a very silly idea to use low floor LRTs.

That is irrelevant at this point. I think you're dreaming if you think there will be any retrofit during your lifetime

 

[IBlack1]

Seeing alot of trams today, is the signal issue resolved?

 

[MrGoose]

None of this is true. The low floor LRT was chosen because the high floor ones require much larger and more intrusive loading platforms, if you want to provide accessibility. Being situated higher up, you'd need longer platforms with ramps at shallow angles. Going low floor is cheaper and more pragmatic.

Penny wise and pound foolish because as has been discussed to death already, low floor means less capacity per dollar spent.

Yea we spent an extra 3B$ on the underground stations to make them longer to accomodate the longer trams, but at least we saved 10M$ on the concrete used for the outdoor aboveground loading platforms because we lowered those platforms 20cm

 

[yurt2022]

I think its hilarious that people are debating retrofitting or building new tunnels/building new bridges, for a line that has taken 13+ years to be built, and isn't even open yet...

I think people at least here are beginning to see the problem with the design choices taken with the ECLRT. We have a pseudo subway in the west paired up with a glorified streetcar in the east, I think operational issues will be inevitable due to the distinct modes of operation.

We may even see a splitting of the line with a well served, frequent "subway" in the western section, while we see an overcrowded and slow tram service in Scarborough due to at grade operations, lack of TSP, etc. Which would then further justify the existence of an "anti-Scaborough" conspiracy at city hall (which looks more true everyday if I'm being honest).