Yeah but guys, you don't understand. Five is ONLY 48 stories. How can it be a success if it isn't gigantic?! I mean, Automation Gallery's need for sooper-talls needs to be met somehow and this tower just doesn't cut it./s

Seriously, this is an amazing development so far, even if I don't really like the dull grey glass. Anything that allows us to maintain and repair heritage buildings along Yonge is good in my books. The precedent here is just amazing for Yonge imo.
 
Pic taken Feb 8, 2014


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That street wall. The continuity of form and height almost makes me want to snuggle up with it. I Really think they did a good job with Five. When the retail comes into the base this will hopefully activate the street a heck of a lot more and add some new flare to the laneway system behind Yonge. Somehow I dont see this becoming a crappy chain retail podium but something with more unique tenants.

Holding out hope.
 
Not to be a bring-down, but the only retail that's been announced here is an RBC. That strikes me as a thoughtless use for a restored Victorian heritage shell, thoughtless other than for the developers and condo board who get a blue chip lessor of space, but one that has traditionally deadened sidewalks in this city. That doesn't make me very hopeful for the rest of the space. What a waste.
 
WiddleBittyKitty said:
Not to be a bring-down, but the only retail that's been announced here is an RBC. That strikes me as a thoughtless use for a restored Victorian heritage shell, thoughtless other than for the developers and condo board who get a blue chip lessor of space, but one that has traditionally deadened sidewalks in this city. That doesn't make me very hopeful for the rest of the space. What a waste.
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From this UrbanToronto interview with Gary Switzer on Five Condos.

What I’ve always found so surprising is why the retail is so good along Church Street, just one block away, and so awful along Yonge. I can’t say specifics but we’re looking at some pretty interesting retailers who could bring a bit of that Queen West vibe in to the area. I think that’s sort of what it needs — somebody has to start it, and nobody seems to want to be a pioneer. You go to Church Street and you’ve got shops like Cumbrae’s and Pusateri’s, all these great retailers and restaurants, and I wonder why can’t you do it here. Perhaps it’s because Church Street has more of a village feel and allows on-street parking, so you don’t feel as though the cars are going 60 miles per hour all the time.

...

It’s not even that interesting for a tourist; I look where my office is up by the Summerhill LCBO and I would say that primarily the retail that does the best up there are restaurants, food stores, or furniture/ antique stores. Could that not work at FIVE? Obviously the demographics in Summerhill are different but what are the demographics on King or Queen West? Why is it so interesting on Queen West but so boring on Yonge near St. Joseph? The Yonge/Wellesley area is no doubt evolving and has evolved. It still has a lot of vitality but it can definitely be so much better.

When we did 18 Yorkville (at Yonge and Yorkville) we saw first hand how good design (architectsAlliance) could attract good retailers and transform a block. I think we’ll do the same at St. Joseph.
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Perhaps having a bank on this otherwise sketchy stretch will help be a catalyst for better retail in this area generally. This area isn't exactly overflowing with bank branches and they do help draw traffic, like LCBOs and grocery stores.
 
That's the first time I've ever heard that said about church street. Yonge has WAY more useful shops. Church has a few boutique shops and the rest is fast food and bars that don't rely on regulars (so they're crap).
 
Ramako said:
From this UrbanToronto interview with Gary Switzer on Five Condos.

Perhaps having a bank on this otherwise sketchy stretch will help be a catalyst for better retail in this area generally. This area isn't exactly overflowing with bank branches and they do help draw traffic, like LCBOs and grocery stores.
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How terrible it must be for rich CEOs to have to live in a city with neighbourhoods that cater to the poor huddled masses. Quickly! Replace all those Chinese restaurants, used bookstores, and tattoo parlors with more Pusateris!

Or maybe a bank will help liven the streetscape. Because banks always make for lively streets.
 
WiddleBittyKitty said:
Not to be a bring-down, but the only retail that's been announced here is an RBC. That strikes me as a thoughtless use for a restored Victorian heritage shell, thoughtless other than for the developers and condo board who get a blue chip lessor of space, but one that has traditionally deadened sidewalks in this city. That doesn't make me very hopeful for the rest of the space. What a waste.
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That's sad to hear. I really thought this developer would take the time and care to get a good mix of retail. Banks never help to animate a retail strip.
 
If bank branches are so horrid, I'd love to know why it was such big news when Regent Park got its first bank branch in over 60 years.

It's absurd to say that banks never help to animate a retail strip. Though they are, in and of themselves, uninteresting retail uses, they can actually be very good for neighbouring retailers as they generate steady traffic, especially in a neighbourhood like this where there aren't a lot of other banks around. A bank popping up here is also an indication of a growing residential population that will ultimately help bring about better retail.

Regardless, at the end of the day banks go up where there's a demand for them. I know it's a shocker in this Roddenberryesque utopian paradise of ours where money is apparently obsolete, but people use banks, including those of you who huff and puff whenever a new bank branch opens up somewhere.
 
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Have you not witnessed with your own eyes what happens when banks open? Take Regent Park, your own example. Has that bank helped animate that part of Dundas Street? I don't think it has become more animated at all, yet the new Freshco, just a block away, has made a huge difference. You can see the same results at Cityplace and Fort York. The banks in these new developments are big, taking up the spaces that could have supplied 4 or 5 stores. People live in this city, yet they seen to fail to see what's going on right under their noses. Take a look at Aura and tell me how much do those big bank spaces contribute to the retail environment there?

Did you not hear that New York City is trying to stop banks from opening at street level, in new development? Why would they do that? It's because they realize it's better to put banks one floor above or one floor below street level. That way you don't kill the pedestrian retail vibe on the street. I've seen this mentioned in a number of articles on urban planning. It's not a new finding.

Things like dental offices, medical centres, car dealerships and banks, have a place in a city but they should not be placed on prime retail streets.
 
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I think it's a fantastic idea to put banks one floor above or below street level. I'd never considered it and I hope it something that happens in Toronto. I agree that a bank's storefront is not good for creating vibrant street life (no one hangs out in front of a bank), but, again, my point is that it's generally good for all retailers in an area if that area is properly serviced by banks. By keeping the bank branches but taking them off the ground floor, we could have our cake and eat it too.

If all of the storefronts in front of Five become banks, then I'll be annoyed, but I'm not going to get upset over one bank branch along a long stretch of Yonge Street that has none (aside from pay day money lending stores).
 
Supply and demand. If there's a demand for banks in an area, I see no reason to stop them from opening shop. If they end up opening too many, eventually some may close and open up space for other retailers.
 
tiffer24 said:
There are thousands of empty retail spaces lining our main streets. If a bank wants to fill in one space, or two, I'm not sure that's the end of urbanity as we know it.
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There are not thousands of empty retail spaces lining our main streets, this is UrbanToronto, not DeUrbanizedDetroit. There are occasional empty retail units, half of them (likely) in the newest of condos, where it can take a few years to get the right mix of retailers into the new spaces.

I'm a fan of the bank on the second floor situation, or at least not allowing for more than one storefront being a bank, with the offices up above. Nothing wrong with one bank squeezed in between more interesting stores, but it is regrettable when they dominate, like along Yonge at Aura. It would be unfortunate to repeat that here. Here's hoping!

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