It's not that he wants to make money, it's that he's been saying all along that this project should be permitted because the public benefits outweigh the loss of the existing buildings and the excess height (relative to the official plan, nearby buildings, and so on). He says that the condos are required to raise enough money for him to be so "generous" as to bequeath the city a Gehry-designed multi-use complex replete with cultural amenities. Of course this is just a smokescreen, because the commercial value (which would accrue to him personally) far exceeds the value of public benefit - which, aside from the (arguable) aesthetic appeal of the new complex, seems to be a small space for the private use of OCAD students, a "museum" that is basically all the stuff that used to be in the Ed's restaurants, and some retail.

I don't know the exact figures, but I suspect that the existing buildings on the site (excluding the theatre) have more square footage than the proposed OCAD + gallery spaces. If he were really that charitable he would simply donate the buildings to OCAD on the condition that they open them up for public use and display the Mirvish collection somewhere on the site.
 
Of course this is just a smokescreen
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There you go again...there is no need for a "smokescreen". If all he wanted to do is make money, he would simply either sell the land to developers or develop it himself and profit from the sales like every other condo developer in the city....sans expensive architects and cultural benefits.

It's pretty clear to any thinking person that the motive here is to leave a legacy...not die richer. And a legacy that matters to him....which is why it includes great architecture and art. You can slag that off as "stroking his ego", but that's what philanthropy is. It's his legacy, his property, his money and his art...he can do it the way he prefers...not some wonky idea "you" dream up.


aside from the (arguable) aesthetic appeal of the new complex, seems to be a small space for the private use of OCAD students, a "museum" that is basically all the stuff that used to be in the Ed's restaurants
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Wow. That's a lot of downgrading in one sentence.
Frank Gehry architecture lacking aesthetic appeal eh? ok that's news.
Considering the current size of OCAD, the new facilities is a significant addition, as well as offering things beyond just additional square footage.
Oh...and FYI...the Mirvish Collection has nothing to do with the "stuff" that used to be in his fathers restaurants (that stuff was auctioned off when the restaurants closed).
 
Agreed, Fresh. Attributing Mirvish' motives to pure ego gratification is cynical and mean-spirited. The man is already wealthy... he definitely doesn't seek more money so much as he desires a solid, enduring legacy to the Mirvish name. We might as well slag all millionaires who have philanthropic tendencies... they're only in it for the money, after all.

Waiting in anticipation for further refinements of the design.
 
Lenser said:
Agreed, Fresh. Attributing Mirvish' motives to pure ego gratification is cynical and mean-spirited.

Waiting in anticipation for further refinements of the design.
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It's more ignorant than mean spirited. Mr Ape simply doesn't know what he's talking about. But then again, we are in Ford era Toronto.

I'm looking for ward to the towers...I'm sure we will love them. But any refinements are not going to include that show-stopper Cloud Podium and it's one-of-a-kind 60,000 sqft gallery. And that's just a damned shame.
 
Yes, it is a shame... but retaining the POW theatre and getting an added public space (though details remain to be seen) are pretty good things too, no matter what your perspective.
 
Tewder said:
Yes, it is a shame... but retaining the POW theatre and getting an added public space (though details remain to be seen) are pretty good things too, no matter what your perspective.
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Well, the loss of the POW would not have affected theatre production, as it would have just moved to one of Mirvish's other theatres that would have otherwise sat empty for large portions of the year, so we don't really gain anything by keeping POW. The Cloud Podium would have met and engaged King & John streets much better than the current warehouse and POW, not to mention how much the architecture would have animated the area on its own.

But like I said...we were always going to get the towers, and I'm sure they will be great. But this is a major lost opportunity of the kind that does not come along often that we stupidly pissed away. This is due to something fundamentally wrong, and it will just keep happening...that's why I'm still harping about it.
 
The urban form of the current iteration is the way to go. The old proposal met the street with a large glass wall not much different from a building like the Four Seasons Centre, except topped with the trademark swooping Gehry features. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't worth losing heritage buildings for.
 
Everyone is assuming at this point this is a go. There has been no approval yet. In the infamous words of Yogi Berra " It ain't over till it's over ". Maybe by the end of the year we can all look forward to new iterations of this project, but until this is given the stamp of approval by council, i wouldn't get too excited about this. You never know with this council, and the upcoming election.
 
bmiller said:
Everyone is assuming at this point this is a go. There has been no approval yet. In the infamous words of Yogi Berra " It ain't over till it's over ". Maybe by the end of the year we can all look forward to new iterations of this project, but until this is given the stamp of approval by council, i wouldn't get too excited about this. You never know with this council, and the upcoming election.
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It is on the council agenda for next week:

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=7854

Wouldn't worry much about it.

AoD
 
bmiller said:
Everyone is assuming at this point this is a go. There has been no approval yet. In the infamous words of Yogi Berra " It ain't over till it's over ". Maybe by the end of the year we can all look forward to new iterations of this project, but until this is given the stamp of approval by council, i wouldn't get too excited about this. You never know with this council, and the upcoming election.
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I seriously don't think this project could ever be an election issue. Bigger fish to fry.
 
I can't imagine it not going ahead. The question will be what form it ultimately take. I'm looking for refinements, sublte and otherwise, to the last iteration.
 
A billion dollar project from a developer whose greatest achievement (from website) is upzoning and flipping the King Blue property. Now, there are those that believe Mirvish connections will be able to raise the equity to get this built. I don't see it. People don't invest that way. I also don't see any development partnership with the market conditions in the Entertainment District and Gehry's designs rarely if ever coming in on budget. Again, I continue to support that rezoning is just a bump compared to the mountain of building it.
 
^+1 Patience is a virtue. It will improve, Gehry has even said he wants to add personality to these two towers. Work in progress.
 
freshcutgrass said:
It's more ignorant than mean spirited. Mr Ape simply doesn't know what he's talking about. But then again, we are in Ford era Toronto.

I'm looking for ward to the towers...I'm sure we will love them. But any refinements are not going to include that show-stopper Cloud Podium and it's one-of-a-kind 60,000 sqft gallery. And that's just a damned shame.
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I have to be honest - comments like this really derail the discourse on this forum - and I apologize for picking on you. DarnDirtyApe has a legitimate POV, calling him a member of FordNation simply because you disagree with Mirvish's assessments are part in parcel why sometimes this forum can be "inside baseball". Calling out Mr. Mirvish doesn't make User Experience Darn Dirty Ape a member of FordNation - not everything in Toronto or Urban Toronto needs to be about His Fatship Mayor Ford.
 
Would it be possible to add some kind of flag to these threads so we can tell if there is new information or just more bickering?
 
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