AgentOrange said:
I love NYC but I don't want Toronto to become it. I never felt so small in my life walking around NYC with so many tall buildings around me and with so many blocking the sun.
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I'm in agreement. I've been to NYC three times. The first time was quite a shock. The lack of sun was a little depressing.

That being said, I still want my seven story LCBO at King & Spadina rather than a single story one.
 
What mystery caverns are you delving into in NY where there's no sun? I'm there twice a year and if I had it my way, I'd go even more. There's a vibrancy to the place that is just unmatched by any other large city I've ever been in and I just seem to feed off of it. I believe it was David Childs who remarked that New York is the greatest work of art by man and for all its problems, I'm largely in agreement.
 
No mystery caverns. I walked all over Manhattan never using the subway. Unless the sun was directly overhead during 11am-2pm, I found I was almost always in the shadow of a building. It was actually quite a relief when I came upon the occasional small park which opened up the immediate area.

Hey, my experience is my experience. I have no axe to grind. I like NYC and intend on future visits to there.
 
lister said:
No mystery caverns. I walked all over Manhattan never using the subway. Unless the sun was directly overhead during 11am-2pm, I found I was almost always in the shadow of a building. It was actually quite a relief when I came upon the occasional small park which opened up the immediate area.

Hey, my experience is my experience. I have no axe to grind. I like NYC and intend on future visits to there.
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+1

Every time I go there the first thing that occurs to me is how hard it is to come by sunshine. People also always come back from their trips and echo that sentiment. I'm wondering which areas ProjectEnd is hanging around....
 
From NRU, September 11, 2009

SOLVING DENSITY
No more bloopers
Municipalities and the province have a
lot of work to do if they want to avoid
seeing underdeveloped properties in
key areas. Sights like the single-storey
LCBO opening soon on the southeast
corner of King Street West and
Spadina Avenue, the single-storey
Shopper’s Drug Mart at Avenue Road
and Lawrence Avenue West and the
single storey of retail that replaced a
six-storey office building at Bathurst
Street and Eglinton Avenue West.

“Developers are very conservative,”
said planning consultant Liz Howson
(Macaulay Shiomi Howson) at yesterday’s
Canadian Urban Institute
discussion. “They’re not in the community
building business. They’re in
the business of making money.”

The discussion—Real-Estate Bloopers:
Or Does Corporate Canada Just See
the World Differently From Planners?
—attempted to address the issue of surprisingly
low-density developments in
areas that seem perfect for intensification.

Developers often build only one
type of project and do not often
engage in mixed-use developments,
Howson said, adding that it is difficult
to secure financing for new development
models. Howson also pointed
out the interesting case of provincial
agencies, such as the LCBO, developing
low-density locations in the face of
the provincial growth plan, which
mandates increased densities in centres
around the GTA.

The planning ideal of complete,
pedestrian-friendly developments is
almost a pipe dream in GTA suburbs,
Howson noted.

“Transit is still a fantasy in most of
these places. You need to create the
infrastructure before you attract development.”

Architect Peter Gabor (Peter A.
Gabor Architects) said that municipalities
should impose minimum height or
density requirements and could consider
offering financial incentives to develop
in certain areas. Stores like Shopper’s
Drug Mart, notorious for building large
single-storey shops, fight extremely
hard to stick to their model.

“These stores are afraid of mixed
use and may need to be encouraged
more than they are today,” Gabor said.
“The path of least resistance is where
developers are going to go.”

Planner Barry Lyon (N. Barry
Lyon Consultants Limited) told the
audience that municipalities need to
talk about the issue with retail developers
more.

“Every regional shopping centre is
a blooper. Canadian Tire is so proud
they’re starting to build two-storey
stores. We’ve got a big job of reaching
out to the retailers.”

Lyon also pointed to subway stations
and other transit hubs as places where
higher densities should be assured.

“There is no provision being made
for intensification around the stations,”
Lyon said of new transit lines being
planned around the GTA. “What we
should be seeing around every station is
as-of-right increases in density.”
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^^^ I don't think I'd go as far as calling this LCBO a blooper on city's part. I think the only "blooper" here is the writer's failure to acknowledge the temporary nature of this LCBO. Clearly, everyone would prefer to see a mixed-use building of appropriate context built here, but who's going to build something more substantial than a flimsy single-storey building that might be torn down again at end of the lease? I'd rather have an LCBO than a parking lot for twenty years or however long the lease actually is.

gei said:
+1

Every time I go there the first thing that occurs to me is how hard it is to come by sunshine. People also always come back from their trips and echo that sentiment. I'm wondering which areas ProjectEnd is hanging around....
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The good areas probably? Why, where do you guys hang out? The financial district? My experiences in NYC are a good balance of sun and shade, the way it should be imho.

 
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Interesting...

I just came back from my first trip to NYC and one of my issues was the lack of real open spaces, trees and sun. Fantastic buildings but it literally is a concrete jungle.
 
Oct 11

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IMG_oct-11-09-0151.jpg


IMG_oct-11-09-0152.jpg
 
I agree with the sentiment of the group here. Why the city allowed a single story use here..especially by a publicly-regulated entity like LCBO is beyond me.
 
tkip said:
I just came back from my first trip to NYC and one of my issues was the lack of real open spaces, trees and sun. Fantastic buildings but it literally is a concrete jungle.
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Do you realize that other people go there because it's a concrete jungle? It's not just New Yorkers either. I gravitate to the densest bits of Toronto. North of Dundas has always been less appealing to me. It's not open spaces, trees, and sun that draws many people to big cities, it's the monumentality of the built form.

Your issues with New York speak more to the size and density of city that you're most comfortable with. Some people like smaller less dense cities, others like huge cities with hyper density. Toronto is moving towards the latter. Many people will find it too much, others can't wait for it to happen.

maestro said:
It's still an upgrade from zero storeys
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Not if you consider that now we're probably stuck with this stump for decades.
 
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^ We won't be stuck with it for decades.

The owner of the property also owns the land on which stands Winners. Once their lease expires, the whole area will be cleared and ready for the next wave of the condo boom.
 
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