innsertnamehere said:
5 years construction is realistic I think - but I fear we are underestimating the procurement timeline. This is going through the typical IO P3 process.

The Hurontario LRT issued it's RFQ in October of 2016, and had it's winning bidder selected October 2019. So 3 years in procurement.

Finch west had its RFQ issued September 2015, winning bidder was selected May 2018. So 2.5 years.

Hamilton hasn't even had it's RFQ issued yet. The last IO market update didn't even list the project as having a tentative time for RFQ issue.

Assuming optimistically the RFQ gets issued Q2 2024, and a 2.5 year procurement, we are looking at:

RFQ: Q2 2024
RFP: Q1 2025
Project Close: Q4 2026
Construction start: Q1 2027
Construction completion: Q1 2032

And that is if the RFQ is issued Q2 2024, and if the procurement process takes only 2.5 years. And if construction takes 5 years.
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So two items of note:

1) The Hamilton LRT is recommended to not be done through a P3 model. Additionally it's my understanding that the project will be split into various smaller contracts, which should speed things up as not every contract needs to be awarded at once.

2) Because much of the design work is being done in-house right now behind the scenes, from what I've heard from transit planner insiders is that the RFQ process could occur much more quickly as they don't need to design and build, just build. I'll see if I can find the exact wording they used.
 
Thanks. I forgot they were breaking up the contracts.

I believe Metrolinx is still planning on doing a large P3 contract for at a minimum the primary construction and maintenance contract, but yes, I recall them saying parts of it may get broken out on seperate contracts and start early.

I wasn't aware they were doing the design in advance. I'd love to know the details on that and the expected procurement timelines.

Regardless I think a 2025 construction start is probably optimistic. Metrolinx just moves way too slowly for these things. GO expansion was supposed to be done by 2025 and we are looking like we will be lucky to have major construction start by then.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Thanks. I forgot they were breaking up the contracts.

I believe Metrolinx is still planning on doing a large P3 contract for at a minimum the primary construction and maintenance contract, but yes, I recall them saying parts of it may get broken out on seperate contracts and start early.

I wasn't aware they were doing the design in advance. I'd love to know the details on that and the expected procurement timelines.

Regardless I think a 2025 construction start is probably optimistic. Metrolinx just moves way too slowly for these things. GO expansion was supposed to be done by 2025 and we are looking like we will be lucky to have major construction start by then.
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Found the exact quote:

"Well it depends. Procurement isn't really as standardized as the chart would have you think.

E.g sometimes the government only has a faint idea of what they want done, and there's a years long process for the private sector to pitch ideas and draw up plans. But if the government already has a good idea of what they want and just need someone to build it, you can absolutely do that in 9 months."
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My understanding is that Metrolinx is doing the detailed engineering documents for the alignment behind the scenes right now. We've seen glimpses of this document, in addition to the 2017 documents with basically bubbles on top outlining the changes, but no full engineering documents. Hence the mention of an updated map in early 2024. That tells me they are looking to put out a RFQ/RFP in Q1 2024, and then theoretically it could be complete 9-12 months later with construction starting Q1 or Q2 2025.

Assuming no further delays, this seems like the planned timeline from what I've been able to collect by asking a ton of people and being really annoying. Metrolinx doesn't seem very interested in giving timelines right now....
 
Screenshot_2023-10-06_163735.jpg
 
Just a reminder that since Hamilton started planning for B-Line LRT (2007)…

Montreal started and completed the Pie-IX BRT..
Started and completed Phase 1 of the REM..
Started construction of the Metro‘s Blue Line eastern extension (est. comp. 2029, before any chance of the B-Line opening)

Toronto started and (alllmmmossst) completed the Eglinton Crosstown..
Started the Finch West LRT..
Completed the St Clair tram ROW..

Mississauga has started and made major progress on the Hurontario LRT.

Kitchener-Waterloo started and completed their iON LRT.

Meanwhile in Hamilton, we’re waiting on Federal & Provincial handouts for the new Bus MSF, while twiddling our thumbs over Metrolinx’s apparent abandonment of our LRT plan despite evicting dozens of residents from the now-demolished affordable residences that flanked King Street East.

This city needs a new slogan:

a) ‘We’ve Tried Nothing And We’re All Outta
Ideas!’

or

b)’ Hamilton: Can’t Someone Else Do It?!’

Cuzzz ‘Ambitious City’ is about as far from reality as possible.
 
DC83 said:
Just a reminder that since Hamilton started planning for B-Line LRT (2007)…

Montreal started and completed the Pie-IX BRT..
Started and completed Phase 1 of the REM..
Started construction of the Metro‘s Blue Line eastern extension (est. comp. 2029, before any chance of the B-Line opening)

Toronto started and (alllmmmossst) completed the Eglinton Crosstown..
Started the Finch West LRT..
Completed the St Clair tram ROW..

Mississauga has started and made major progress on the Hurontario LRT.

Kitchener-Waterloo started and completed their iON LRT.

Meanwhile in Hamilton, we’re waiting on Federal & Provincial handouts for the new Bus MSF, while twiddling our thumbs over Metrolinx’s apparent abandonment of our LRT plan despite evicting dozens of residents from the now-demolished affordable residences that flanked King Street East.

This city needs a new slogan:

a) ‘We’ve Tried Nothing And We’re All Outta
Ideas!’

or

b)’ Hamilton: Can’t Someone Else Do It?!’

Cuzzz ‘Ambitious City’ is about as far from reality as possible.
Click to expand...
Ambitious city was actually an insult from Toronto about Hamilton being ambitious but not following through. I think Hamilton deserved, and continues to deserve that insult.
 
RitsmaCW said:
Ambitious city was actually an insult from Toronto about Hamilton being ambitious but not following through. I think Hamilton deserved, and continues to deserve that insult.
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And all these projects that pop up ‘pending LRT’…….

This City is seriously unserious.

Hamilton will never escape it’s rut if it doesn’t start taking initiative.

EcDev & Tourism Hamilton’s can’t keep pushing the ‘Art is the New Steel’ narrative much longer. That was over in 2019, regardless of their social media posts.
 
DC83 said:
Just a reminder that since Hamilton started planning for B-Line LRT (2007)…

Montreal started and completed the Pie-IX BRT..
Started and completed Phase 1 of the REM..
Started construction of the Metro‘s Blue Line eastern extension (est. comp. 2029, before any chance of the B-Line opening)

Toronto started and (alllmmmossst) completed the Eglinton Crosstown..
Started the Finch West LRT..
Completed the St Clair tram ROW..

Mississauga has started and made major progress on the Hurontario LRT.

Kitchener-Waterloo started and completed their iON LRT.

Meanwhile in Hamilton, we’re waiting on Federal & Provincial handouts for the new Bus MSF, while twiddling our thumbs over Metrolinx’s apparent abandonment of our LRT plan despite evicting dozens of residents from the now-demolished affordable residences that flanked King Street East.

This city needs a new slogan:

a) ‘We’ve Tried Nothing And We’re All Outta
Ideas!’

or

b)’ Hamilton: Can’t Someone Else Do It?!’

Cuzzz ‘Ambitious City’ is about as far from reality as possible.
Click to expand...
It's all the sewerage that leaked into the bay. ;)
 
Looks like the Bus MSF contract has been awarded:

“After several closed-door meetings and negotiations with the low-bidder, councillors recently voted to award the project to contractor Pomerleau for $331 million.”

www.thespec.com

Hamilton’s bus barn budget spikes by $80 million

City appealing for extra federal and provincial help to cover inflation-driven overages on what is now expected to be a two-year, $331-million project
www.thespec.com www.thespec.com


Never heard of the company, so I Googled them:

 
DC83 said:
Looks like the Bus MSF contract has been awarded:

“After several closed-door meetings and negotiations with the low-bidder, councillors recently voted to award the project to contractor Pomerleau for $331 million.”

www.thespec.com

Hamilton’s bus barn budget spikes by $80 million

City appealing for extra federal and provincial help to cover inflation-driven overages on what is now expected to be a two-year, $331-million project
www.thespec.com www.thespec.com


Never heard of the company, so I Googled them:

Click to expand...
The contractor has done a number of projects around Toronto and did TTC Leslie Barns.
 
DC83 said:
Looks like the Bus MSF contract has been awarded:

“After several closed-door meetings and negotiations with the low-bidder, councillors recently voted to award the project to contractor Pomerleau for $331 million.”

www.thespec.com

Hamilton’s bus barn budget spikes by $80 million

City appealing for extra federal and provincial help to cover inflation-driven overages on what is now expected to be a two-year, $331-million project
www.thespec.com www.thespec.com


Never heard of the company, so I Googled them:

Click to expand...
Pomerleau is very big in Quebec and eastern ontario. My interaction with them has been through hospital construction projects in Quebec when the company i work for is installing medical xray equipment, and they're responsible for constructing the room to our requirements.
 
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