^Mike Crawley also pointed out that ML web site still cites the $1B figure. Costs don’t balloon overnight. One has to ask if that figure was always wrong, why was ML not disputing it.at the time.? And why has none of their updates since then warned of that?

I don’t dispute that the cost may be higher than originally stated - that usually happens - but this “fun with figures” is so wrong.

It sure appeared that the plan for the LRT was actually stimulating development plans, and that a certain number of people were actually looking at making Hamilton their home - especially those priced out of the Toronto housing market. That turnaround could have made central Hamilton a darn nice city. This really does seem like a kick in the teeth.

- Paul
 
tiffer24 said:
So when the Ontario Line costs balloon... POP goes Toronto's transit plans.
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Nope. This is pure politics - Ford right from the start has not been keen on this project. Their platform was explicit in giving $1 billion to Hamilton for "what it wanted", LRT or not. Hamilton chose LRT, and this is Doug saying "haha just kidding you are getting something else".

The Ontario Line and other subway expansion projects are cornerstones of the provincial transit strategy, and Ford's pride and joy. You have to remember that subways are personal for the Ford family. The Ontario Line will get built, as long as Ford is in power.
 
Currently TTC and the city has to fund the daily maintenance on the LRTs. Long term overhaul is to be funded by Ontario. The crosstown has a 9b+ contract value including the 30 year life cycle.
I'm not sure if Hamilton thought they can get away from maintenance.
 
Hamilton should demand a subway then! ;)

Seriously, how can this government seriously hope to win 2022? Running with no program and numbers won't work twice this time nor austerity. They are pissing off the biggest voting bloc (millennials) who although tend not to vote as much will do so if provoked for too long
 
Coolstar said:
How does an on street LRT that isn't even as long as the crosstown or ION cost $5.5 billion? Unfortunate it's cancelled though it would been very beneficial to Hamilton.
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Some insight on that $5.5B number.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1206672946477092865

Also, Mayor's response below.

1576531638613.png
 
Cobra said:
Hamilton should demand a subway then! ;)

Seriously, how can this government seriously hope to win 2022? Running with no program and numbers won't work twice this time nor austerity. They are pissing off the biggest voting bloc (millennials) who although tend not to vote as much will do so if provoked for too long
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Doug Ford's popularity is going to increase big time when he delivers his long promised income tax cut. People are going to start liking him a whole lot more then.

These kinds of cuts pay for that, but come at the expense of ridings the PCs never stood a chance in anyway. It's a win-win for them.
 
It's a complete lie they are selling. Full stop. The costs on Capital construction may have increased, but the $5.5 billion cost is a combination of Constructing+Financing+Maintenance+Operations. This is not a 5x balooning of costs. It's the assembling of a variety of costs which were implicit regardless of any Construction cost increases. For comparison: Finch W LRT and Missisauga LRT

Missisauga LRT:
$1.6 Billion in construction costs
$4.6 Billion RFP award which includes operations, maintenance, financing etc. Also operations are to be done by Transdev, the P3 partner.

Finch LRT:
$1.2 billion in construction costs *with 2 below grade stations*
$2.5 Billion RFP award which includes partial maintenance & financing for the private partners. TTC is covering all ops costs and some maintenance costs not included in that $2.5 billion iirc

both of those RFP awards were done by the Ford govt. I have no idea how on earth they get to $5.5 billion with the Hamilton LRT costs even including all those factors, the Hamilton system is less complex than the Missisauga LRT.

They need to release all their numbers so the public can see. I expect FOIs to be flying in any moment...

Correction: Metrolinx did not want Hamilton HSR to operate the LRT for it would have been in the p3 price.
 
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mrxbombastic said:
It's a complete lie they are selling. Full stop. The costs on Capital construction may have increased, but the $5.5 billion cost is a combination of Constructing+Financing+Maintenance+Operations. This is not a 5x balooning of costs. It's the assembling of a variety of costs which were implicit regardless of any Construction cost increases. For comparison: Finch W LRT and Missisauga LRT

Missisauga LRT:
$1.6 Billion in construction costs
$4.6 Billion RFP award which includes operations, maintenance, financing etc. Also operations are to be done by Transdev, the P3 partner.

Finch LRT:
$1.2 billion in construction costs *with 2 below grade stations*
$2.5 Billion RFP award which includes partial maintenance & financing for the private partners. TTC is covering all ops costs and some maintenance costs not included in that $2.5 billion iirc

both of those RFP awards were done by the Ford govt. I have no idea how on earth they get to $5.5 billion with the Hamilton LRT costs even including all those factors, the Hamilton system is less complex than the Missisauga LRT and the province wasn't going to be on the hook for Operations.

They need to release all their numbers so the public can see. I expect FOIs to be flying in any moment...
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here it is
https://twitter.com/x/status/1206691208267026432

1576532754230.png
 
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