dougtoronto
New Member
I wonder if the City could run its own water taxi service? Perhaps it would be cheaper and take some of the profits away from private providers.
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- Thread starter themarc
- Start date
DSC
Superstar
The experience here and elsewhere is that competition between private operators leads to more service and lower prices. Of course, I am not sure how much real competition there is between the current water taxi operators but ...
evandyk
Senior Member
The city should run a water taxi, but do it with really big boats that fit many people to make it efficient.
DSC
Superstar
They could call them.........new ferries!
dougtoronto
New Member
Well my original idea was that the City could offer the ferry service at the cost of a Presto fare, and then run a water taxi service at a premium but still less costly than private providers.
dowlingm
Senior Member
It's possible to pay a water taxi to get to the island and then use the city ferry for free on the way back - the rationale I've heard for that in the past is "we don't want people to have no way home if they lose their wallet". A pedestrian bridge would allow the City to check / impose fares on the ferry back since (1) the passengers may have used the bridge to get on the island (2) the attempted-free-riders now have an option to walk off the island.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
I've gotta admit that the partially tongue in cheek LRT loop that popped up on twitter actually has an appeal to me. Keep the ferries only to Centre Island, build the Airport bridge more or less as in the Lastman era plans and the eastern as purely streetcar/pedestrian. It could honestly even be single everywhere south of the Airport (though I doubt it would be worth it given how cheap construction would actually be through the park).
DSC
Superstar
Though an argument can certainly be made for a bridge, we live in Toronto where many good ideas (QQE LRT for example) are much discussed and even made top priorities but which never happen. It would undoubtedly be far cheaper to install ticket control FROM the Island than to build a bridge or build a tunnel below the runways from Billy Bishop Airport terminal to Hanlans Point.
crs1026
Superstar
I do wonder if the sense or urgency around a footbridge is just the byproduct of the City having bobbled the ferry replacement issue.
If the City had seized the ferry replacement issue promptly back around 2015, and there were replacements running today, would we still be wanting the bridge connection? Maybe the bridge is a second error throwing good money after bad.
The questions I would ask are, at what point does the ferry infrastructure cease to keep up with probable future demand (I disagree with the premise that the islands have to be kept in its traditional "sparsely populated" state.... but a park can only hold so many people, and the limit may arrive.....Chicago's Navy Pier is analogous) and how much island-side and harbour-side infrastructure will be needed to get people to the bridge (energetic cyclists who see no challenge in cycling waay over to the Cherry Street side and then cycling all the way from Wards to Hanlan are not the target population here and should not tip the scales).
Maybe we just ought to grit our teeth, admit that the City blew this one, and suck it up until the new ferries arrive and give us adequate relief for the whole problem. And ask ourselves what other parkland the City needs when the Islands are full.
- Paul
If the City had seized the ferry replacement issue promptly back around 2015, and there were replacements running today, would we still be wanting the bridge connection? Maybe the bridge is a second error throwing good money after bad.
The questions I would ask are, at what point does the ferry infrastructure cease to keep up with probable future demand (I disagree with the premise that the islands have to be kept in its traditional "sparsely populated" state.... but a park can only hold so many people, and the limit may arrive.....Chicago's Navy Pier is analogous) and how much island-side and harbour-side infrastructure will be needed to get people to the bridge (energetic cyclists who see no challenge in cycling waay over to the Cherry Street side and then cycling all the way from Wards to Hanlan are not the target population here and should not tip the scales).
Maybe we just ought to grit our teeth, admit that the City blew this one, and suck it up until the new ferries arrive and give us adequate relief for the whole problem. And ask ourselves what other parkland the City needs when the Islands are full.
- Paul
DSC
Superstar
Even if the new ferries arrive predictably late, they will be here YEARS (if not decades) before any bridge could be planned, designed, value engineered, built and opened.
evandyk
Senior Member
I know people are excited about the bridge, but it's 3 km from the eastern gap to the Centre Island pier. People are not going to take a pedestrian bridge from Cherry St to the island for the purposes that most people currently use the island for (Centreville, beaches, picnics/bbqs, etc.). Even if they could easily get to Cherry and Unwin easily, which they cannot.
Towered
Superstar
And this is exactly why the Island needs a cute seasonal heritage trolley!
evandyk
Senior Member
True! Bikeshare stands too.
But it seems most of the people talking about the bridge either have never been to the island, or don't use the island like most people do (i.e. they bring their bikes and tool over from Centre Island to Hanlan's or the Ward's Island side). They are not the people who lug a giant cooler and bag of charcoal, or go to ride the rides at Centreville.
But it seems most of the people talking about the bridge either have never been to the island, or don't use the island like most people do (i.e. they bring their bikes and tool over from Centre Island to Hanlan's or the Ward's Island side). They are not the people who lug a giant cooler and bag of charcoal, or go to ride the rides at Centreville.
crs1026
Superstar
I too have mused about this, but don't assume that this is sustainable. A heritage fleet substantial enough to serve a heavy-use attraction like the Islands would be expensive to create and maintain. The wear and tear on vintage equipment in that kind of heavy-duty service would overwhelm the resources of any heritage group I know of.
Places like Tampa run pseudo "heritage" trolleys and Disney runs its antique railways.... but they do it with modern purpose built equipment and full-size transit agency shops.
A couple of Witt cars or PCCs trundling up and down a track on the Islands would be charming and nostalgiac.... until a lineup formed, and then it would be bad news.
- Paul