[drum118]

This lot area or the one on the east side where the 2 best location to put in a new terminal for everyone, but OMER's prefer to see single story buildings. Using City View would be a lot faster than Rathburn.

OMER's is the City enemy for building anything close to a downtown on their property.

The terminal need to be able to handle 100,000 riders a day or double what CCTT does today.

I Have no problem with the LRT been move to City Centre Dr and over the 403 as it will add less than 5 minutes of travel time. The current proposed route will add 15 minutes just like the the 19 does today for riders wanting to get north/south of Sq One in the first place.

 

[khris]

The map used for the site plan is the City Centre Land Use Map. It was created in 2002. Just ignore the BRT stop

Ah okay. That makes sense then.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Wonder if Mississauga would buy a used boring tunnel machine from Toronto after Toronto finished tunneling the Eglinton Crosstown LRT or other tunnel parts of Toronto's Transit City?

Or would they be sharing the machine because of Metroplix.

 

[Fresh Start]

The transitway is a bus-only road, and yes it will intersect with Hurontario St at Rathburn.

This "random" point will allow a transfer to and from the transitway routes, which your Kingsbridge terminal does not.

Sorry if I don't take your word for it. According to the City of Mississauga, as recently as a month ago, the Transitway Station will be located at CCTT. Why on earth would they locate two BRT stops within a kilometre of eachother, when the latter stop location is presently just an offshoot of the highway with no immediate density nor demand?

http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/Fall2009Newsletter.pdf

It is your proposed Kingsbridge terminal that will force the extra transfer, not the Hurontario/Rathburn terminal. The latter connects to the transitway, and the former does not.

Are you kidding me? The 7/107 will overlap with the Transitway east of Dixie Road. They're going through the exact same area. It is more convenient for 107 riders to transfer from the ACC then @Hurontario anyway. You're also not comprehending what would take place with a Kingsbridge Terminal. There'd be no more 35 Eglinton bus. Only a 34 Eglinton West looping via Kingsbridge Cir and a 7 Eglinton East bus looping via Sorento and Elia. How can this be you ask? Because the demand level for through trips across Eglinton are not high enough to justify such services. That's why the 89 is rush-hour only. That's why the 35 bus is so infrequent, that unless one memorizes the schedule it's virtually useless to most average users.

Transfers are inconvenient, it is simple as that. That's the reason I don't support the Sheppard LRT. There is no point is forcing people to transfer just continue on in the same direction. But not only are proposing forcing people to transfer just to go in the same direction for ONE more stop. The cost of transferring is too high such a short distance, especially riders will have to make an addition transfer to get onto the transitway.

You have yet to convince me that a one-minute ride on a subway to connect the two points is worse then the 4-5 minutes it presently takes to do the same excursion via bus. Ever tried commuting down Hurontario in a hurry to connect to a bus at CCTT, knowing that if you miss it you'll be stranded for another 20 minutes til the next bus arrives? I have, several times. I even got sent home from work once cause I wind up a half-hour late, no fault of my own. So you have to rationalize customers taking an inferior transit mode into CCTT, when an underground LRT would be so much faster even with a transfer. Liken this to riders of the Bloor-Danforth today getting off at B-Y, riding down YUS only 2 stops then connecting to the 506 car. Are they any worse for wear?

Comparing this to Sheppard is apples to oranges. I'm actually eliminating a trasnfer because you'd have people get off at Rathburn/Hurontario then await another bus to connect to CCTT. Or worse have them walk it over. What I'm proposing is more direct, frees up driving lanes on Hurontario for motorists, reduces smog, and makes it easier for necessary routes to quickly enter CCTT (the bottleneck there is crazy with sometimes 15 buses entering or exiting at the same time, each standing bus contributing to even more smog and poorer air quality for our customers). What I'm proposing is a more efficient system.

Am I understanding you correctly? You are saying it is better to eliminate bus service along Rathburn West and reducing connections to Square One and the transitway (York U, UTM, airport) and direct people instead to the Kingsbridge terminal?

No I don't think you're understanding me at all. I never said to eliminate bus servce from anywhere. The beauty of the LRT subway is that irrespective of the local bus schedules, people can still get to where they're going around MCC area without worry. If people find it more convenient to stick to the bus, then they'll opt for that. This just gives them another option. And I just explained above how the 89 and 107 seamlessly connect to the Transitway further east. If the Transitway were to also veer north to say Meadowvale Town Centre a la the 109, then riders of the 34 (or express equivalent) would have direct access on that end. Of course no commuter wants to connect to the Transitway for the sale of the Transitway. They just want faster commutes which Kingsbridge Terminal provides for them by shaving 12 minutes off commutes from not entering, unloading, reloading, driver changing, departing @CCTT. Standing in queue to get through several lights, eats up valuable time.

I'm not making assumptions about anything. The City Centre Transit Terminal is the busiest transit terminal in the 905, even if you do not include the 19/102. You just have look at the masses of people at the terminal on any given day. People are there for reason and they got there somehow. The pre-BRT routes such as the 110 and the GO York U buses would be even close to the enormously success they are now if not for that.

You recognize that it has a function and prupose, and you even state that "People are there for reason and they (have) got (to get) there somehow" yet you do not want the Huronatrio LRT to have a direct link to it? Why?

Bottom line is, people are more far willing to wait for infrequent bus connections to Square One than they will be for infrequent bus connections to Kingsbridge and Eglinton.

"Infrequent bus connections to Kingsbridge and Eglinton." What now? Per my proposal no one would be subjected to infrequent bus connections to either destination. Both would be directly accessible via the underground LRT line. I fail to see how buses connecting at Kingsbridge would be infrequent nonetheless. Given the four local routes (7, 34, 35, 68) being consolidated into 3 plus an express route (89) there could be buses departing Kingsbridge every 2 minutes or better peak and in many instances non-peak. How's that infrequent?

We are not talking about people who are living and working right in MCC. I don't see how taking most of the bus service out MCC would benefit those people. MCC can't be served by just one route and your diversion ignores all the office workers along Robert Speck...

I never said to take out the bus feeders from MCC. If anything this is their express, limited stopping counterpart. B/thrope/Kariya has a lot of office workers too. City Centre/DOY ditto along with civic services that most Mississaugans will desire a reliable link to. I did consider two alternate routes into CCTT, one serving RS but with the 3, 8, 26, 53 and 76 all running by that intersection it is not completely necessary. Like you said, one route cannot serve the entire area adequately, neither can one station at RS fully cater to the office towers further down along RS or along City Centre Dr.

I really don't get it. You want to market MCC as a major downtown and yet you are willing to take almost all the bus service out of it. You want the LRT to be diverted to serve CCTT, but at the same time you want to reduce the importance of CCTT. You want the LRT to serve Square One better, but you propose a diversion that does not have a single stop that is closer to Square One than a stop at Robert Speck would be. You say peopel aren't willing to take the bus to Sq One, but propose that the buses go to Kingsbridge and Eglinton instead.

Stop distorting my arguments!! A station at CCTT is physically closer to the mall than a RS station would be. Please consult a map. Even the Mississauga City Centre stop if centered on Princess Royal Dr is close to the Cineplex and could have direct underground access. That's 2 direct subway connections to the mall, putting SQ1 on the same level as the Toronto Eaton Centre.

The Hurontario LRT is for the Hurontario/Main corridor, which is much, much more than just MCC. What you propose would inconvience pretty much all of the riders in the corridor, not to mention riders in other corridors.

Riiiiiiiiiight. Like riders of the Hurontario/Main corridor want to withstand an unnecessary transfer point when it's relatively easy to just veer the LRT line around the mall and back again. It adds a minute for two or through customers admittedly, but it saves 5-10 minutes for people seeking the mall, the city hall or offices at Kariya from not having to wait for and ride the 3, 8, 26. And yes these lines would still serve CCTT, but only now they wouldn't be customers only options. One of the biggest problems with the 202 bus is that it bypasses the MCC area. People want fast transit yes, but it most connect to some nodes/trip generators en route.

 

[RedRocket191]

People want fast transit yes, but it most connect to some nodes/trip generators en route.

+1

The one lingering question I have is "how many people are going all the way through?"

Whenever I ride the 19 the bus basically turns over at Square One. Anecdote I know, but I'd love to see numbers on how many people ride past Square One vs how many people get off there. We should be planning for what will improve convenience for the most people.

 

[doady]

+1

The one lingering question I have is "how many people are going all the way through?"

Whenever I ride the 19 the bus basically turns over at Square One. Anecdote I know, but I'd love to see numbers on how many people ride past Square One vs how many people get off there. We should be planning for what will improve convenience for the most people.

People get off the 19 to get to Square One or to connect to the other CCTT and BRT routes. The LRT does not have to get off Hurontario to make any of these connections, so it would not inconvenience anyone.

I repeat yet again and again and again: all regular bus and BRT routes at CCTT can connect to the Hurontario elsewhere with no or little change to their routing.

I find it highly amusing you have absolutely no problem with the Fresh Start's proposal to take a bunch out of Square One. But I can't say I am surprised at all.

 

[Fresh Start]

People get off the 19 to get to Square One or to connect to the other CCTT and BRT routes. The LRT does not have to get off Hurontario to make any of these connections, so it would not inconvenience anyone.

I repeat yet again and again and again: all regular bus and BRT routes at CCTT can connect to the Hurontario elsewhere with no or little change to their routing.

I find it highly amusing you have absolutely no problem with the Fresh Start's proposal to take a bunch out of Square One. But I can't say I am surprised at all.

A bunch? Listen to yourself. No one aboard the 107 bus is going to take it west and south down to CCTT to await and board the Transitway just to head right back east where the two services will overlap. It makes no sense. It also makes no sense to get off the LRT subway @RS or Rathubrn, go exit out into the cold and stand and wait on average 5-10 minutes just to travel 500m over to CCTT. Why would you subject customers to that?

The diversion, in a tunnel, not obscrued by mitigating traffic nor changing lights, will not affect the speed travel times for through passengers to the extent you're making it out to be. Like RedRocket just stated above most passenger turnover for the 19 bus occurs at SQ1. So hypothetically if 40,000 riders are travelling southbound or northbound, 20,000 at minimum will assuredly get off here. You don't force 20,000 customers to transfer to go only 500m. And you're the one acting as if my Kingsbridge Terminal proposal would be a major inconvenience to customers by contrast.

 

[doady]

Sorry if I don't take your word for it. According to the City of Mississauga, as recently as a month ago, the Transitway Station will be located at CCTT. Why on earth would they locate two BRT stops within a kilometre of eachother, when the latter stop location is presently just an offshoot of the highway with no immediate density nor demand?

And perhaps that is why I proposed another transitway station? Similar to the final transitway plan...

This is a temporary plan. Notice the lack of a transitway between Erin Mills and City Centre, and east of Winston Churchill? And so the missing Churchill Meadows and Creditview stations are also missing.

Are you kidding me? The 7/107 will overlap with the Transitway east of Dixie Road.

And exactly how will the riders the 7 connect with BRT services going west? What about the connection the other bus routes at CCTT?

They're going through the exact same area. It is more convenient for 107 riders to transfer from the ACC then @Hurontario anyway.

107 is not the only transitway route that needs connections.

You're also not comprehending what would take place with a Kingsbridge Terminal. There'd be no more 35 Eglinton bus. Only a 34 Eglinton West looping via Kingsbridge Cir and a 7 Eglinton East bus looping via Sorento and Elia. How can this be you ask? Because the demand level for through trips across Eglinton are not high enough to justify such services. That's why the 89 is rush-hour only. That's why the 35 bus is so infrequent, that unless one memorizes the schedule it's virtually useless to most average users.

The 35 and 89 are very busy. There is a reason why the 89 uses articulated buses. The 35 less busy simply because it is a new route.

The 7 and 34 are only busy because they serve Square One. And yet you propose to take them out of Square One.

You have yet to convince me that a one-minute ride on a subway to connect the two points is worse then the 4-5 minutes it presently takes to do the same excursion via bus.

It seems to me that you are not a transit rider if think forcing transfers for such a short distance is not a big deal.

Ever tried commuting down Hurontario in a hurry to connect to a bus at CCTT, knowing that if you miss it you'll be stranded for another 20 minutes til the next bus arrives?

That's anywhere in the city, really. CCTT is bad only because of long-winded routing. If you want to facilitate transfers, the routes have to be direct, not long winded routings like your LRT.

So you have to rationalize customers taking an inferior transit mode into CCTT

Without that inferior transit mode, the CCTT would pointless.

Comparing this to Sheppard is apples to oranges. I'm actually eliminating a trasnfer because you'd have people get off at Rathburn/Hurontario then await another bus to connect to CCTT.

Why would riders along Hurontario need to get to CCTT if all the buses at CCTT can or already connect with Hurontario easily elsewhere?

Or worse have them walk it over.

Why would riders along Hurontario need to get to CCTT if all the buses at CCTT can connect with Hurontario easily elsewhere?

What I'm proposing is a more efficient system.

A long-winded underground diversion to a reduced CCTT is not exactly what I call efficient.

No I don't think you're understanding me at all. I never said to eliminate bus servce from anywhere.

Oh really? What was that you were saying about the 7, 34, 35, 68, 89 just now?

The beauty of the LRT subway is that irrespective of the local bus schedules, people can still get to where they're going around MCC area without worry.

Except if they are working in one of those office buildings along Robert Speck of course.

And I just explained above how the 89 and 107 seamlessly connect to the Transitway further east.

The 107 is a transitway route.

And I never called for any change in the routing of the 89, or the 35 for that matter.

If the Transitway were to also veer north to say Meadowvale Town Centre a la the 109, then riders of the 34 (or express equivalent) would have direct access on that end.

The 109 is a transitway route.

Of course no commuter wants to connect to the Transitway for the sale of the Transitway.

I think the riders of the York University buses and the 110 would beg to differ.

[quote[They just want faster commutes which Kingsbridge Terminal provides for them by shaving 12 minutes off commutes from not entering, unloading, reloading, driver changing, departing @CCTT. [/quote]

No they want direct connection to the transitway, Square One, and the other CCTT routes. Your Kingsbridge terminal does not provide any of this.

You recognize that it has a function and prupose, and you even state that "People are there for reason and they (have) got (to get) there somehow" yet you do not want the Huronatrio LRT to have a direct link to it? Why?

The CCTT is there to connect the transitway routes and connect between regular routes. If Hurontario LRT can connect to all these routes elsewhere, then it does need to serve CCTT. It is as simple as that.

"Infrequent bus connections to Kingsbridge and Eglinton." What now? Per my proposal no one would be subjected to infrequent bus connections to either destination. Both would be directly accessible via the underground LRT line. I fail to see how buses connecting at Kingsbridge would be infrequent nonetheless. Given the four local routes (7, 34, 35, 68) being consolidated into 3 plus an express route (89) there could be buses departing Kingsbridge every 2 minutes or better peak and in many instances non-peak. How's that infrequent?

You are the one who labeled them "infrequent", not me. The 7, 34, 35, 89 already provide a combined 5 minute frequency during rush hour. And the ridership is high. And yet you are the one called for major changes to these routes, not me.

I never said to take out the bus feeders from MCC. If anything this is their express, limited stopping counterpart.

So basically the Hurontario LRT should be designed as a limited stop feeder route?

B/thrope/Kariya has a lot of office workers too.

Honestly I don't see how the diversion would serve office workers better considering most are located along Hurontario which you want to divert the LRT off of.

City Centre/DOY ditto along with civic services that most Mississaugans will desire a reliable link to.

If that would true, then the western MCC routes would be much busier.

I did consider two alternate routes into CCTT, one serving RS but with the 3, 8, 26, 53 and 76 all running by that intersection it is not completely necessary.

I could say it is not necessary for the LRT to serve western MCC if it is already served by 6, 9, 26, 28, 61.

Like you said, one route cannot serve the entire area adequately, neither can one station at RS fully cater to the office towers further down along RS or along City Centre Dr.

Without the Robert Speck station, your diversion undoubtedly serves offices workers worse, so I don't know what you are trying to argue here. A diversion be mostly for residents in the condos, which are concentrate around Duke Of York.

Stop distorting my arguments!! A station at CCTT is physically closer to the mall than a RS station would be. Please consult a map.

They are all actually the same distance, except for the one on Burnhamthorpe which is the farther. But the RS fastest to get to.

Again, your diversion does not serve Square One any better. okay it has two stops serving Square One, but only is needed. Two is redundant.

Riiiiiiiiiight. Like riders of the Hurontario/Main corridor want to withstand an unnecessary transfer point when it's relatively easy to just veer the LRT line around the mall and back again.

What unnecessary transfer point?

Aside from you own forced transfers for the riders to the 7 and 34 of course.

It adds a minute for two or through customers admittedly, but it saves 5-10 minutes for people seeking the mall, the city hall or offices at Kariya from not having to wait for and ride the 3, 8, 26. And yes these lines would still serve CCTT, but only now they wouldn't be customers only options. One of the biggest problems with the 202 bus is that it bypasses the MCC area. People want fast transit yes, but it most connect to some nodes/trip generators en route.

The problem is 202 bus is that it is too infrequent the stops are in poor location. The Robert Speck stop for example is too far from Robert Speck. And that combined with lack the connection with the transitway routes, reduces ridership a lot. This wouldn't be a problem with any LRT.

 

[doady]

A bunch? Listen to yourself. No one aboard the 107 bus is going to take it west and south down to CCTT to await and board the Transitway just to head right back east where the two services will overlap. It makes no sense. It also makes no sense to get off the LRT subway @RS or Rathubrn, go exit out into the cold and stand and wait on average 5-10 minutes just to travel 500m over to CCTT. Why would you subject customers to that?

The 107 is a transitway route.

The diversion, in a tunnel, not obscrued by mitigating traffic nor changing lights, will not affect the speed travel times for through passengers to the extent you're making it out to be. Like RedRocket just stated above most passenger turnover for the 19 bus occurs at SQ1. So hypothetically if 40,000 riders are travelling southbound or northbound, 20,000 at minimum will assuredly get off here. You don't force 20,000 customers to transfer to go only 500m. And you're the one acting as if my Kingsbridge Terminal proposal would be a major inconvenience to customers by contrast.

Why would Hurontario LRT riders need to get to CCTT if then can connect to all other route elsewhere?

Even now you can that most northbound 19 riders get off at Robert Speck.

 

[khris]

Get rid of the transit terminal altogether, and then most of these problems won't exist. The only routes that should really operate out of the bus terminal are GO buses. Local transit should just pass by Square One.
For example, the 20 should go east and west on Rathburn, while dropping people off and picking people up on Rathburn itself. Like that semi bus terminal in downtown Hamilton.
The 26 should do the same thing, but on Burnhamthorpe.

More grid based bus operating will create a more pedestrian friendly and downtown feel.
With more pedestrian activity, the city will create more tree lined streets, and more sidewalks. Also businesses will pop up where there were none before, to cater to the people walking past areas where no businesses yet exist.

I don't see how people like those of you here, and also the city itself, don't see how this would be great!

 

[Fresh Start]

And perhaps that is why I proposed another transitway station? Similar to the final transitway plan...

This is a temporary plan. Notice the lack of a transitway between Erin Mills and City Centre, and east of Winston Churchill? And so the missing Churchill Meadows and Creditview stations are also missing.

The map be dated, but nowhere in the multiple reports issued by the City of Mississauga have I come across any mention of a Hurontario Stn, upto and including the link I provided. They all advocate a CCTT located stop. And why not? The area irrespective of the transit hub has a bona fide trip generator on-site that riders seek direct access to (SQ1).

And exactly how will the riders the 7 connect with BRT services going west? What about the connection the other bus routes at CCTT?

Riders of the 7 bus connecting to the westbound BRT serrvices? Um hello, they wouldn't be on the 7 bus in the first place, they'd switch onto the 89 for a one-seat fast direct ride to points west (Creditview, Erin Mills Town Centre, Chruchill Meadows). They'd transfer onto the BRT at Eastgate Pkwy and avoid the long arduous journey across low-density industrial Eglinton. And I'm going to take a wild guess in assuming most of the 7's 3933 daily customers aren't bound for the 110 in droves. So why should the commute of the many be sacrificed for the miniscule few who are too lazy to descend a flight of stairs at Kingsbridge? Those whom only have to board a train that arrives frequently (the 19/102/202 through mitigating traffic has 4 minute headways so I'd reckon even faster times with an exclusive LRT ROW) and ride on it for only a minute, then have access to all the local routes, GO routes and BRT routes at CCTT.

Furthermore your Rathburn/Hurontario proposal would further inconvenience customers because instead having all the local bus/BRT lines plus the Huronatrio LRT all converge at one central point, where the public is already accustomed to using, you'd now have dual transit hubs within a 600m radius of eachother. This results in an unnecessary backtrack acheived either by walking or awaiting the infrequently scheduled bus (20 Rathburn as its name suggests runs on 20-minute headways conditions permitting).

The 35 and 89 are very busy. There is a reason why the 89 uses articulated buses. The 35 less busy simply because it is a new route.

The 7 and 34 are only busy because they serve Square One. And yet you propose to take them out of Square One.

Define busy. 89 = 2,540ppd, the 35's only 1,367. Compare this to 3,933 for the 7 bus and 2,766 for Credit Valley. Plus another 839 take the Windsor Hill route. And for the 7's part it would be busy even without the direct link, which I proposed solely to make the route more efficient (time lost circling CCTT and back again critically slows down both inbound and return trips).

It seems to me that you are not a transit rider if think forcing transfers for such a short distance is not a big deal.

More like you aren't since transferring between 5-6 buses one-way is a regular occurence for me. What's acceptable modus operandi varies from person to person.

That's anywhere in the city, really. CCTT is bad only because of long-winded routing. If you want to facilitate transfers, the routes have to be direct, not long winded routings like your LRT.

There is nothing long winded about a traffic-free tunnel making a C-curve within a kilometre of its principal alignment. Less than 50 people per hour desire to go explicitly to Robert Speck/Hurontario out of AM/PM Rush. Several thousands by the hour even off-peak want to go to the mall, want civic services, want to walk it from transit to their condos rather than be bussed there, want a direct transfer between any number of routes.

Without that inferior transit mode, the CCTT would pointless.

Take a lesson from Toronto, will you? Buses build up density in a neighbourhood due to proximity to public transit, but as demand levels exceed the capacity of local bus routes alone, more is needed. LRT through the city core not unlike Toronto's streetcars is the next logical step. They don't just fringe the innercity, they run right through it. Seeing as Sauga doesn't have the luxury of running multiple LRTs through CCTT, it's best to make use of the one we've got.

Why would riders along Hurontario need to get to CCTT if all the buses at CCTT can or already connect with Hurontario easily elsewhere?

Why would riders along Hurontario need to get to CCTT if all the buses at CCTT can connect with Hurontario easily elsewhere?

Not GO Transit routes. Not the 6, 9, 66, 110. Riders of the 28 and 61 only going a short distance also may not appeciate having to board from Sherobee or Cooksville, particularly north-of-403 riders of the 61. Do you think it is really worth demolishing all that priceless transit terminus infrastructure, which is easy walking distance from Ontario's largest and more renown shopping centres, just for the sake of feeding into a delusion that Rathburn/Hurontario is the better transfer point? Based on what evidence?

A long-winded underground diversion to a reduced CCTT is not exactly what I call efficient.

The only thing that is long-winded is this conversation. Given the spacings required, the average time it'd take to get from Elm/Hurontario to Mississauga Marketplace entranceway is 5 minutes.

Oh really? What was that you were saying about the 7, 34, 35, 68, 89 just now?

Technically there are no bus stops in-between CCTT and Kingsbridge for these routes to no longer serve so I have not eliminated any service. It's faster via LRT in a segregated ROW anyhow.

Except if they are working in one of those office buildings along Robert Speck of course.

Ha, if you value 300 office worker per day over tens of thousands whom would benefit far, far more from a direct CCTT transfer station, then, well you have no business preaching to me the merits of anything transit planning related.

The 109 is a transitway route.

Which only bolsters my argument. Thanks.

I think the riders of the York University buses and the 110 would beg to differ.

Who are only a small fraction of the 7's daily ridership (ya know since Maltonians could transfer onto GO services closer to them, or better yet stay on the 107 which as you've stated feeds directly into where the 110 terminates).

No they want direct connection to the transitway, Square One, and the other CCTT routes. Your Kingsbridge terminal does not provide any of this.

Right, because LRTs with timed electronic displays accurately telling customers how long til the next train arrives is worse than risking your bus getting stuck in 403 offramp traffic as your connecting bus at CCTT pulls off. No thank you.

The CCTT is there to connect the transitway routes and connect between regular routes. If Hurontario LRT can connect to all these routes elsewhere, then it does need to serve CCTT. It is as simple as that.

Again, the 20 Rathburn runs every 20 minutes and given the sparse usage along that route I don't anticipate headways to get any tighter. For riders desiring to get as close as possible to their connecting services at CCTT, it makes no sense to get off the LRT prior to Rathburn or at most take their chances at RS.

You are the one who labeled them "infrequent", not me. The 7, 34, 35, 89 already provide a combined 5 minute frequency during rush hour. And the ridership is high. And yet you are the one called for major changes to these routes, not me.

What major changes? Shaving an elapsed 12 minutes off commute times from all 3 routes (I don't know why you'd mention the 89 since it doesn't run into CCTT), is that what you meant? The quick turnover of unloading and reloading from Kingsbridge, means people boarding at Hurontario along these routes can get to their destinations faster. Less overcrowding and bottlenecking at CCTT too from removing those lines which are better off sticking to their main alignments and not meandering. Would you reroute Britannia and Dundas buses into CCTT? Just because it is a kilometre away doesn't mean Eglinton isn't its own independent corridor.

So basically the Hurontario LRT should be designed as a limited stop feeder route?

Now you're beginning to get it.

Honestly I don't see how the diversion would serve office workers better considering most are located along Hurontario which you want to divert the LRT off of.

Pay a visit to the general Kariya/Burnhamthrope/City Centre area then and maybe you'll grasp what I mean.

 

[Fresh Start]

If that would true, then the western MCC routes would be much busier.

I could say it is not necessary for the LRT to serve western MCC if it is already served by 6, 9, 26, 28, 61.

And the fact that buses serving this area are more irregularly scheduled than those around RS doesn't tell you that that's where the LRT is needed, to compensate for the lack of coverage? Again lessons from Toronto; Toronto Centre (Osgoode/Queen), North York Centre and Scarborough Centre- civic centres bordered by reliable mass transit services. Eventually all the former borough's civic areas will have rapid transit at their doorstep. Never underestimate the demand for direct access to these areas. Even Brampton's City Hall will be getting a direct stop under Zum and presumably by the LRT as well. So a 800m diversion to DOY I can live with if it makes the quality of the service that much more appealing to riders.

Without the Robert Speck station, your diversion undoubtedly serves offices workers worse, so I don't know what you are trying to argue here. A diversion be mostly for residents in the condos, which are concentrate around Duke Of York.

RS is a five minute walk north Burnhamthrope. Kariya Stn would be easy walking distance of most office buildings along City Centre Dr leading upto RS. The towers east of Burnhamthrope are better served via the 53 and 76. Seeing as the 19 bus today stops no where near these edifices, you're really making much a do about nothing. They all would still have to walk it over a spell.

They are all actually the same distance, except for the one on Burnhamthorpe which is the farther. But the RS fastest to get to.

Nope. Hurontario is one block removed from the mall and is very wide at this point. The connection would also have to come through the Walmart store as opposed to a common area of the mall. So it's at least 5 minutes walking distance removed. My alignment would compliment the shape of the mall, curving inwards towards it. So by CCTT/SQ1 Stn, one could literally step off the train, get through the turnstile and go shopping.

Again, your diversion does not serve Square One any better. okay it has two stops serving Square One, but only is needed. Two is redundant.

Never underestimate the laziness of pedestrians. Same as they don't want to walk it in from Hurontario to CCTT, neither will many want to walk out the entire mall when they got a specific store in mind. Besides MCC Stn primarily is for the City Hall/Living Arts Ctr.

What unnecessary transfer point?
Aside from you own forced transfers for the riders to the 7 and 34 of course.

Hwy 10 proper to MCC/SQ1.

The problem is 202 bus is that it is too infrequent the stops are in poor location. The Robert Speck stop for example is too far from Robert Speck. And that combined with lack the connection with the transitway routes, reduces ridership a lot. This wouldn't be a problem with any LRT.

Thanks for proving my argument. The RS stop isn't in a poor location, RS is just a poor transfer point period. You'll notice most CCTT-bound people get off prior. They don't want points on Hurontario, they want direct rapid transit into the urban core which unfortunately Hurontatio only fringes. That's what you need to grasp.

The 107 is a transitway route.

You knew that I meant the 7 bus. Where are these fabled customers you allude to whom would travel several kilometres in the wrong direction only to hop onto the BRT heading right back towards wence they came?

Why would Hurontario LRT riders need to get to CCTT if then can connect to all other route elsewhere?

Even now you can that most northbound 19 riders get off at Robert Speck.

If you haven't grasped it by now, you never will. Infrequent, unreliable, multiple-stopping local bus routes does not equate the advantages of true rapid transit capable of swinging into the downtown district then resuming its normal course.

 

[drum118]

Did some asking today as what happen to the Dec meeting and where things stand for this thing.

There is steering committee meeting this weekend with the final report going to Metrolinx for the BCA in Feb.

A presentation is to be made to Council in Feb and then go out to the Public most likely March.

From what I was told last fall to now, be prepare to hear BRT is the way to go. It was LRT in the fall and now looking like BRT. Zum starts next year from Brampton to Sq One that will replace the 102.

 

[Dan416]

Meh if they decide to go BRT then there was no point to this whole exercise at all.

 

[Fresh Start]

Southwards from Eglinton via CCTT to Lakeshore could still be underground LRT, north of CCTT as BRT, creating a breif overlap. And remember that road median busway ROWs can always be converted to light-rail with relative ease in the future as demand warrants.