Ramako
Moderator
Welp, that's a pile of sh*t. What a shocker.
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condovo
Senior Member
With the parade of garbage we've been getting lately -- this, 460 Yonge, Aura -- I hope the bottom falls out of the market sooner rather than later; Massey Tower, Context King West and 60 Colborne excepted.
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Tulse
Senior Member
Boy, that is a terrible design -- so bland and uninspired. I much preferred the earlier boxes (although they could also have used some work).
With Exhibit breaking ground, and Waterlink going up, I don't think that's quite true. It seems to me that stacked/skewed boxes and wavy balconies are the design clichés du jour in Toronto.
With Exhibit breaking ground, and Waterlink going up, I don't think that's quite true. It seems to me that stacked/skewed boxes and wavy balconies are the design clichés du jour in Toronto.
Atlantis and I were at the meeting tonight, and you'll hear a lot more about this soon from us, but what I can now is that
1) I agree: the towers are terrible. Inelegant. Dull. Totally uninspired. An insult. Wait until you see some of the elements of the podium.
2) The ground floor layout for the plan is superb. It's well enough thought out that I think it may become a benchmark for complexes of this stature in the city. We'll show that to you soon.
Nobody at the meeting objected to the architecture. Nooooooooooobody. Not out loud, anyway.
This will go to the DRP: Adam Vaughan assured the crowd (when they objected to Core's plan for the other proposal discussed at the meeting) that all projects in the area will now go to the DRP. That said, I'm not sure what they can do: they have more effectiveness when it comes to troubled site plans than they do fixing crappy, dull suburban-office-park-aesthetic choices for exterior treatments.
I do love the site plan though - coming soon!
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1) I agree: the towers are terrible. Inelegant. Dull. Totally uninspired. An insult. Wait until you see some of the elements of the podium.
2) The ground floor layout for the plan is superb. It's well enough thought out that I think it may become a benchmark for complexes of this stature in the city. We'll show that to you soon.
Nobody at the meeting objected to the architecture. Nooooooooooobody. Not out loud, anyway.
This will go to the DRP: Adam Vaughan assured the crowd (when they objected to Core's plan for the other proposal discussed at the meeting) that all projects in the area will now go to the DRP. That said, I'm not sure what they can do: they have more effectiveness when it comes to troubled site plans than they do fixing crappy, dull suburban-office-park-aesthetic choices for exterior treatments.
I do love the site plan though - coming soon!
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gristle
Senior Member
This corner has been through so many architectural iterations that everyone just assumes it will look like crap in the end anyway. There were comments to the councillor after the meeting regarding the look.
ThomasJ
Active Member
i'm sorry, but massey tower, context king west and 60 colborne are not the only decent projects out there at the moment. agreed re: the 460 yonge/501 yonge/aura garbage characterization but there are some very good ones out there. even up the block from the 460/501 garbage with hpa's five and 8 gloucester projects which are two nearby examples. also picasso and a whole host of others in the king west district if you want to stick closer to home. not fair to simply categorize everything as garbage.
BMyers
Active Member
I posted a few other pics of the podium at www.twitter.com/urbanation
Kudos to Travis and a couple others for actually saying why they don't like the rendering. Just calling something a "pile of poo" is ignorant and doesn't add anything to the forum. Sure you can call someone ugly, but it has more punch if you tell them their nose is too big or their chin's too long. If we're going to insult, let's be specific.
I too thought the original render (see below) is better than the new. I am a fan of the "boxed" look similiar to that of Aspen Ridge's Studio project.
I do not know enough about architecture to speak intelligently on the materials or cladding, but I did like the juxtaposition of horizontal north and south facing balconies and the vertical lines present on the east and west facing sides.
However, the podium by the new owners looks great and I'm glad the city is getting more mixed use, especially the potential addition of a theatre museum at grade.
Kudos to Travis and a couple others for actually saying why they don't like the rendering. Just calling something a "pile of poo" is ignorant and doesn't add anything to the forum. Sure you can call someone ugly, but it has more punch if you tell them their nose is too big or their chin's too long. If we're going to insult, let's be specific.
I too thought the original render (see below) is better than the new. I am a fan of the "boxed" look similiar to that of Aspen Ridge's Studio project.
I do not know enough about architecture to speak intelligently on the materials or cladding, but I did like the juxtaposition of horizontal north and south facing balconies and the vertical lines present on the east and west facing sides.
However, the podium by the new owners looks great and I'm glad the city is getting more mixed use, especially the potential addition of a theatre museum at grade.
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metroTO
Active Member
Geez, this design took a 180.
It looks like a pair of North York office towers from the early 90's.
Time to get a new architect.
It looks like a pair of North York office towers from the early 90's.
Time to get a new architect.
Ramako
Moderator
I wouldn't call it ignorant. Sometimes you can't exactly point out what specific feature(s) you detest about a project, but that doesn't mean you don't know ugly when you see it. The whole package - together - is just ugly. Sue me.
canarob
Senior Member
I don't love this either, but I definitely prefer it over the intestinal-style designs like 460 Yonge. Like Trump, it will just look like something else that was finished in the late 80s or early 90s, and there are far uglier buildings from that period.
Mongo
Senior Member
I agree that this project looking older than it actually is would not necessarily be a bad thing. It would help prevent the ED towers from looking like they were all built in the space of a few years (although of course they will have been).
Although I am not sure that it DOES look like it was built in the late 1980s or early 1990s. The currently proposed design is definitely far below the two previous versions in my opinion, either of which would have been well above average had they been built, but it still looks like something designed (badly) sometime during the last decade to me.
Solaris
Senior Member
look like......from Urbanation
first thing the new King-Blue design reminds me of is the 2 towers @ Maple Leaf Square (also by P+S ... but with KPMB)
khris
Senior Member
That is the new proposal? That is crap compared to what was proposed before. The other ones would have been iconic! Ugh.
SP!RE
°°°°°°
The stacked-box design was so clean and "of its time". It also reflected the Westinghouse building nicely I felt.
These overpower the warehouse, and they would have been considered cool even 5 or 6 years ago, but today they are far from being good enough.
These overpower the warehouse, and they would have been considered cool even 5 or 6 years ago, but today they are far from being good enough.
Okay - here's a better look. I apologize for the acute angle.
The ground floor below works as follows:
The vast majority of the street frontage on King, Blue Jays Way, and Mercer is made up of retail units. Of the existing buildings lining King, only the one containing Verano is coming down for the project.
There's a mid-block north-south pedestrian walkway from King through the courtyard and on to Mercer. There's a mid-block eastbound only driveway off Blue Jays Way towards the King Street Alley, with a new north-south City-owned lane at the east end of the site taking traffic back to Mercer Street. The parking entrance and the loading are located at the east end of the project and can be accessed by the two-way north-south lane off of Mercer. The south side of the eastbound driveway has a bollard-protected couple of metres-worth of space for pedestrians. The north side of the courtyard has a lay-by for vehicles to do pick-up and drop-off, and the rest of the area is bollarded off for pedestrian's convenience and safety. Paving stones will include scattered illuminated "stones" mixed in.
Each of the four sides of the courtyard will be predominantly glazed. The northwest corner will feature the hotel's lounge and entrance. The northeast corner will feature the 48-storey tower's lobby and entrance. The southwest corner will be the 44-storey tower's lobby and entrance. The southeast corner will be lobby and entrance to TheatreMuseumCanada. Second floor areas at these corners will also be glazed. The glazed boxes will always mean that activity and light will filled the courtyard area.
The second floor can be seen below. The north half of the project at this level is taken up by the hotel. A restaurant takes up the west half, while hotel suites suite are found in the east portion. The hotel continues up to the 8th floor throughout the north half of the project. The brand has not been settled on yet.
The south half will be the TheatreMuseumCanada, taking up about 10,000 square feet. The Museum was made a part of the project when David Mirvish was the proponent of the project. They continue to work with the new owners.
The top of the podium sections - 7th and 8th levels - feature outdoor amenity space for the condos and hotel, with green features. The tops of the towers will feature white roofs.
The podium will be faced with the black brick of the Four Seasons Centre. Frames echo the Westinghouse building's stone frames.
TheatreMuseumCanada's spaces are expressed on the exterior by the horizontal white frames, (above and below), echoing the stone frames of the Westinghouse building. A commenter at the meeting hoped that the museum would have signage and/or a more distinctive treatment at the corner of Blue Jays Way and Mercer to help it stand out more. Signage would also be located King at the entry to the mid-block walkway to help people find the museum. School groups attending nearby Mirvish shows are expected to make up a large number of the museum's visitors, and the courtyard features enough space to allow school buses to load and unload their passengers.
Below, the north side glazing within the courtyard.
Balconies will be fritted, completely opaque at the bottom, fading to completely transparent at the top.
The ground floor below works as follows:
The vast majority of the street frontage on King, Blue Jays Way, and Mercer is made up of retail units. Of the existing buildings lining King, only the one containing Verano is coming down for the project.
There's a mid-block north-south pedestrian walkway from King through the courtyard and on to Mercer. There's a mid-block eastbound only driveway off Blue Jays Way towards the King Street Alley, with a new north-south City-owned lane at the east end of the site taking traffic back to Mercer Street. The parking entrance and the loading are located at the east end of the project and can be accessed by the two-way north-south lane off of Mercer. The south side of the eastbound driveway has a bollard-protected couple of metres-worth of space for pedestrians. The north side of the courtyard has a lay-by for vehicles to do pick-up and drop-off, and the rest of the area is bollarded off for pedestrian's convenience and safety. Paving stones will include scattered illuminated "stones" mixed in.
Each of the four sides of the courtyard will be predominantly glazed. The northwest corner will feature the hotel's lounge and entrance. The northeast corner will feature the 48-storey tower's lobby and entrance. The southwest corner will be the 44-storey tower's lobby and entrance. The southeast corner will be lobby and entrance to TheatreMuseumCanada. Second floor areas at these corners will also be glazed. The glazed boxes will always mean that activity and light will filled the courtyard area.
The second floor can be seen below. The north half of the project at this level is taken up by the hotel. A restaurant takes up the west half, while hotel suites suite are found in the east portion. The hotel continues up to the 8th floor throughout the north half of the project. The brand has not been settled on yet.
The south half will be the TheatreMuseumCanada, taking up about 10,000 square feet. The Museum was made a part of the project when David Mirvish was the proponent of the project. They continue to work with the new owners.
The top of the podium sections - 7th and 8th levels - feature outdoor amenity space for the condos and hotel, with green features. The tops of the towers will feature white roofs.
The podium will be faced with the black brick of the Four Seasons Centre. Frames echo the Westinghouse building's stone frames.
TheatreMuseumCanada's spaces are expressed on the exterior by the horizontal white frames, (above and below), echoing the stone frames of the Westinghouse building. A commenter at the meeting hoped that the museum would have signage and/or a more distinctive treatment at the corner of Blue Jays Way and Mercer to help it stand out more. Signage would also be located King at the entry to the mid-block walkway to help people find the museum. School groups attending nearby Mirvish shows are expected to make up a large number of the museum's visitors, and the courtyard features enough space to allow school buses to load and unload their passengers.
Below, the north side glazing within the courtyard.
Balconies will be fritted, completely opaque at the bottom, fading to completely transparent at the top.
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