jsmith77

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Xmas panoramic of Cherry & Commissioners 9679FEFE-C18B-47AB-A629-71A93794A9C1.jpeg
 

DSC

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I don't see on the current construction stutus that they have started work on this Keating Channel bridge, is this for cars or is this a walking/cycling bridge?
View attachment 370994
There are several planned Keating Channel bridges, several are pedestrian/bikes only and, in addition to Cherry Street they have plans for one for vehicles at Munition Street (which I have not heard much of for several years). I do not think much if anything has yet been installed as they are waiting for more work to happen on north side of the Channel (including rebuild of the Lake Shore East bridge over the Don.
 

Phil P

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AMOR

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Is the Cherry Street South bridge (that has just been positioned) the east bridge? Will this temporarily carry vehicular traffic until the transit bridge is delivered? Is there a temporary street plan in circulation?.....it would be interesting to see how they have designed this crossover? As far as I know there is no timetable on future bridge delivery (western Cherry Street South Bridge and the other Commissioners Street Bridge). It doesn't even look like foundations have been poured for these which implies that they are many years away from being built. How will these future bridges be installed without destroying vegetation that will flourish in the meantime?
 

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Is the Cherry Street South bridge (that has just been positioned) the east bridge? Will this temporarily carry vehicular traffic until the transit bridge is delivered? Is there a temporary street plan in circulation?.....it would be interesting to see how they have designed this crossover? As far as I know there is no timetable on future bridge delivery (western Cherry Street South Bridge and the other Commissioners Street Bridge). It doesn't even look like foundations have been poured for these which implies that they are many years away from being built. How will these future bridges be installed without destroying vegetation that will flourish in the meantime?
You probably need to skim back this thread as most of your questions are answered there but...

The YELLOW bridge that arrived a few weeks ago is the only bridge currently planned to cross the new Don River, it's for vehicles. BUT there is talk of bringing the QQE LRT south to a loop at Polson Street they will need another one that will need to be installed beside it. The RED/ORANGE bridge that arrived first and is installed over the Keating Channel is getting a twin next spring, one for vehicles, one for LRT. The Commissioners Bridge that arrived late last summer is a 'solo' (for vehicles) - at least until the LRT is brought along Commissioners to Leslie (decades away.)
 

AMOR

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Thanks for your response. I understand that they will need to bring in additional LTR bridges for Cherry South and Commissioners but my question is more about the logistics of installing those bridges after water is flowing in the river bed and traffic is flowing on the existing bridges. It seems like a logistical nightmare (i.e. pouring new bridge foundation once water is flowing in the river is not easy or cheap) but I'm sure Waterfront Toronto has a sound plan for it. I'm just curious about the plan, the staging, and the timeline. This is all fascinating and it is fun watching it unfold.
 

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Thanks for your response. I understand that they will need to bring in additional LTR bridges for Cherry South and Commissioners but my question is more about the logistics of installing those bridges after water is flowing in the river bed and traffic is flowing on the existing bridges. It seems like a logistical nightmare (i.e. pouring new bridge foundation once water is flowing in the river is not easy or cheap) but I'm sure Waterfront Toronto has a sound plan for it. I'm just curious about the plan, the staging, and the timeline. This is all fascinating and it is fun watching it unfold.
Civil engineers build new bridges all the time so I have no doubt that adding any extra ones here will not be an engineering challenge. I suspect that one cannot (or should not) build a bridge foundation or support structure before you know exactly what the new bridge will look like and exactly what weight it will need to carry as the possible Polson Loop is a new idea that has not been accepted by anyone officially it is unreasonable to expect WT to have planned for its bridge and the one for an LRT on Commissioners is really likely 25-40 years away.
 

drum118

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Civil engineers build new bridges all the time so I have no doubt that adding any extra ones here will not be an engineering challenge. I suspect that one cannot (or should not) build a bridge foundation or support structure before you know exactly what the new bridge will look like and exactly what weight it will need to carry as the possible Polson Loop is a new idea that has not been accepted by anyone officially it is unreasonable to expect WT to have planned for its bridge and the one for an LRT on Commissioners is really likely 25-40 years away.
Not that easy as I noted before once the river is in place. You need to do shoring for the south Cherry LRT bridge to the point of building dam to do the piers in the river unless they do it next year before digging the new river once the New Cherry St Road opens in Aug, if then. The end pier needs shoring to build them without much problems, but wise to do it before the river is dug..

The big issue is how do you place the LRT bridge on the supports once it welded together?? You will need a few 1000 ton cranes on both sides of the new river to place the bridge into position. There will be a huge cost to do it after the fact than doing it like the road bridge. If they had to use a 350 and 400 ton crane to place the end section in place and will move the bridge on movers that will be move onto barges for placing, how are you going to do it once the river is running???

This cost will be peanuts compare to the cost of doing the Commissioner LRT bridge.

It is already known what is needed for the foundation for the LRT bridges since they were design by the same engineers who are doing the bridges now, but the building the foundation and the bridges were place on hold by Waterfront Toronto due to lack of funds..

When the bidding for the bridges went out for tender, it call for all of the bridges at that time and contract was awarded based on that tender. Since the city and Waterfront have chose to push the LRT bridges down the road as well building the lines,, those bridges will cost more at the time of building then as well installing them. They may get away cheaply on the Cherry St LRT bridge if built in the next 2-5 years, but not on the Commissioner bridge. Same goes for shipping and installing them.
 

drum118

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The centre section of the Commissioner St bridge looks to be fully welded together as no cover over it base on @Nalsh Photo. Not sure as to what is under that centre section as I haven't seen it there before or what it will do. It could be for testing vehicles on the bridge to make sure everything is ready to start the removal of the earth under the bridge to open up the new extensions for the 2 channels.
dsc_6471-jpg.371602
 

Neil

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Not that easy as I noted before once the river is in place. You need to do shoring for the south Cherry LRT bridge to the point of building dam to do the piers in the river unless they do it next year before digging the new river once the New Cherry St Road opens in Aug, if then. The end pier needs shoring to build them without much problems, but wise to do it before the river is dug..

The big issue is how do you place the LRT bridge on the supports once it welded together?? You will need a few 1000 ton cranes on both sides of the new river to place the bridge into position. There will be a huge cost to do it after the fact than doing it like the road bridge. If they had to use a 350 and 400 ton crane to place the end section in place and will move the bridge on movers that will be move onto barges for placing, how are you going to do it once the river is running???

This cost will be peanuts compare to the cost of doing the Commissioner LRT bridge.

It is already known what is needed for the foundation for the LRT bridges since they were design by the same engineers who are doing the bridges now, but the building the foundation and the bridges were place on hold by Waterfront Toronto due to lack of funds..

When the bidding for the bridges went out for tender, it call for all of the bridges at that time and contract was awarded based on that tender. Since the city and Waterfront have chose to push the LRT bridges down the road as well building the lines,, those bridges will cost more at the time of building then as well installing them. They may get away cheaply on the Cherry St LRT bridge if built in the next 2-5 years, but not on the Commissioner bridge. Same goes for shipping and installing them.
Drum, I agree that the sequencing WT and the city have forced themselves into will cost more in the end but the installation is doable:

Yellow LRT bridge: Use the river as a tool. 1) Barge under the yellow road bridge, lift it up and float it out of the way. This may require removing the road deck to reduce weight, 2) Float in the new LRT bridge. 3) Float back the road bridge. No cranes required.

Commissioners LRT Bridge: Offload the LRT segments bridge at the turning basin and drive them west on Commissioners. Yes this will require removing light poles etc but they will be making a mess of this stretch of road to install streetcar tracks and overhead after the fact anyway. Combination of barge and crane to move the bridge segments into their final location. Alternately they could also uninstall the red Cherry street bridges and float the Commissioners LRT segments up the Keating channel but the overland method would be less disruptive in this instance.
 

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Not that easy as I noted before once the river is in place. You need to do shoring for the south Cherry LRT bridge to the point of building dam to do the piers in the river unless they do it next year before digging the new river once the New Cherry St Road opens in Aug, if then. The end pier needs shoring to build them without much problems, but wise to do it before the river is dug..

The big issue is how do you place the LRT bridge on the supports once it welded together?? You will need a few 1000 ton cranes on both sides of the new river to place the bridge into position. There will be a huge cost to do it after the fact than doing it like the road bridge. If they had to use a 350 and 400 ton crane to place the end section in place and will move the bridge on movers that will be move onto barges for placing, how are you going to do it once the river is running???

This cost will be peanuts compare to the cost of doing the Commissioner LRT bridge.

It is already known what is needed for the foundation for the LRT bridges since they were design by the same engineers who are doing the bridges now, but the building the foundation and the bridges were place on hold by Waterfront Toronto due to lack of funds..

When the bidding for the bridges went out for tender, it call for all of the bridges at that time and contract was awarded based on that tender. Since the city and Waterfront have chose to push the LRT bridges down the road as well building the lines,, those bridges will cost more at the time of building then as well installing them. They may get away cheaply on the Cherry St LRT bridge if built in the next 2-5 years, but not on the Commissioner bridge. Same goes for shipping and installing them.
I certainly agree that ordering all the bridges at same time and installing them in a 'better sequence' would be cheaper but it is unreasonable to expect anyone to have thought of ordering an LRT twin for the "new Don River, yellow, Bridge" at the time these bridges were ordered (the bridge contract was awarded in February 2019) as I do not think there was any serious consideration of bringing the QQE LRT south to Polson Street until very recently - and it is not (yet?) approved. They could have prepared for the second Commissioners St Bridge as that has been discussed for several years but most 'plans' for that assume it will not be built for 20 or 30 years.
 

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