AlvinofDiaspar

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I certainly agree that ordering all the bridges at same time and installing them in a 'better sequence' would be cheaper but it is unreasonable to expect anyone to have thought of ordering an LRT twin for the "new Don River, yellow, Bridge" at the time these bridges were ordered (the bridge contract was awarded in February 2019) as I do not think there was any serious consideration of bringing the QQE LRT south to Polson Street until very recently - and it is not (yet?) approved. They could have prepared for the second Commissioners St Bridge as that has been discussed for several years but most 'plans' for that assume it will not be built for 20 or 30 years.

If the city had wanted it done it should haven't resetted the QQLRT process in the first place. The rest of the world can't wait for the city to get its act together - and the whole Lower Don project might not have even gotten off the ground if it didn't get the go-ahead when it did.

AoD
 

interchange42

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Is the Cherry Street South bridge (that has just been positioned) the east bridge? Will this temporarily carry vehicular traffic until the transit bridge is delivered? Is there a temporary street plan in circulation?.....it would be interesting to see how they have designed this crossover? As far as I know there is no timetable on future bridge delivery (western Cherry Street South Bridge and the other Commissioners Street Bridge). It doesn't even look like foundations have been poured for these which implies that they are many years away from being built. How will these future bridges be installed without destroying vegetation that will flourish in the meantime?
Yes, it is insane that the installation of these bridges wasn't future proofed. Why, you're planning to build another similar bridge further east for the LRT would you not install that bridge first, then the western bridges second? The idea that they'd temporarily move the west bridges out of the way to put the eastern bridges in later is essentially nuts (way too expensive and disruptive to an area that will no doubt be lively by then). The other option for new eastern bridges being delivered the same way would be to have to, as you said, destroy any landscaping that had grown in the meantime in order to offload the new bridges, then drive them around the existing ones then crane them into place.

I think it's far more likely that when the LRT is approved into the Port Lands sometime in the future that it will come with a budget that prohibits anything other than utilitarian bridges to be built in place beside the fancy road bridges that we're going to be enjoying.

42
 

Neil

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Building bridges in situ is messy business too involving cranes, support roads and staging areas. But we shall see. Given this city's "transit last" strategy, I will say in about 20 years.
 

allengeorge

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Yeah. Standard Toronto way: cheap out - and then act surprised when it turns out that your fantastical dreams can’t be realized. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s an explicit decision: people are wowed by plans and then, later, the city can cry poor, pass the buck and not deliver

This city has no ambition. And increasingly no intellectual or institutional capacity to get even its limited plans into reality.
 

Northern Light

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Yeah. Standard Toronto way: cheap out - and then act surprised when it turns out that your fantastical dreams can’t be realized. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s an explicit decision: people are wowed by plans and then, later, the city can cry poor, pass the buck and not deliver

This city has no ambition. And increasingly no intellectual or institutional capacity to get even its limited plans into reality.

Note that the surface LRT (not the portal/tunnel) is being managed by WT not the City/TTC.
 

allengeorge

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Note that the surface LRT (not the portal/tunnel) is being managed by WT not the City/TTC.
IIRC, the city didn’t figure out what the LRT route/terminus would be, and so only one bridge was procured. Now they’ve identified that they want to run it into the Portlands (but only in the 2030s) but are a bridge short.

Is that not correct?
 

Northern Light

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IIRC, the city didn’t figure out what the LRT route/terminus would be, and so only one bridge was procured. Now they’ve identified that they want to run it into the Portlands (but only in the 2030s) but are a bridge short.

Is that not correct?

The City clearly has an effect on the recommended final route; though the process that delivered that verdict was WT led.

To be sure they didn't get there w/o City input; and the City was solely responsible earlier on, so yet a decision could have and should have been taken earlier.
 

allengeorge

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The City clearly has an effect on the recommended final route; though the process that delivered that verdict was WT led.

To be sure they didn't get there w/o City input; and the City was solely responsible earlier on, so yet a decision could have and should have been taken earlier.
My recollection (and perhaps drum or Steve Munro can correct me) is that the project was on again/off again for a while. No money was committed, limited design was done, at some point only buses were planned… It seemed like all the energy was sucked into trying to figure out whether we needed a people mover or something at Union.

I think it was only in 2020 that we suddenly started to see design work get done for the Union Station Loop, and an announcement that the city would be prioritizing design for the Eastern Waterfront LRT and Eglinton East LRT.
 

Northern Light

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My recollection (and perhaps drum or Steve Munro can correct me) is that the project was on again/off again for a while. No money was committed, limited design was done, at some point only buses were planned… It seemed like all the energy was sucked into trying to figure out whether we needed a people mover or something at Union.

I think it was only in 2020 that we suddenly started to see design work get done for the Union Station Loop, and an announcement that the city would be prioritizing design for the Eastern Waterfront LRT and Eglinton East LRT.

That's more or less accurate.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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My recollection (and perhaps drum or Steve Munro can correct me) is that the project was on again/off again for a while. No money was committed, limited design was done, at some point only buses were planned… It seemed like all the energy was sucked into trying to figure out whether we needed a people mover or something at Union.

I think it was only in 2020 that we suddenly started to see design work get done for the Union Station Loop, and an announcement that the city would be prioritizing design for the Eastern Waterfront LRT and Eglinton East LRT.

Timeline:

1641139997758.png


And the Ex9.9 report:

1641140213057.png


Something about doing the same thing again and expecting a different outcome...

AoD
 

Phil P

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Yes, it is insane that the installation of these bridges wasn't future proofed. Why, you're planning to build another similar bridge further east for the LRT would you not install that bridge first, then the western bridges second? The idea that they'd temporarily move the west bridges out of the way to put the eastern bridges in later is essentially nuts (way too expensive and disruptive to an area that will no doubt be lively by then). The other option for new eastern bridges being delivered the same way would be to have to, as you said, destroy any landscaping that had grown in the meantime in order to offload the new bridges, then drive them around the existing ones then crane them into place.

I think it's far more likely that when the LRT is approved into the Port Lands sometime in the future that it will come with a budget that prohibits anything other than utilitarian bridges to be built in place beside the fancy road bridges that we're going to be enjoying.

42
 

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