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The more I think of it, the Faith Goldy/Laura Loomer crowd reminds me of a modern-day version of 90s Frank Magazine idee fixes such as Lisa Heughan, mentally-ill publicity-hound undercurrent and all (though with far-right politics substituting for various stages of undress)
 
I really love progressive class warfare. You always here the no service cuts period mantra from people under the progressive label.
However, the "progressive" choice for mayor is willing to attack the one city service that is seen as an upper class activity, and that is golf courses. I mean she is not advocating for a systematic review of other potentially unneeded city services, she is only looking at golf courses.

The only real explanation to me is that they don't think that poor people should have a chance to play golf. I would be more willing to accept this from a libertarian candidate but I will not accept this line from a candidate who pushes large government everywhere except golf courses. Why single this out as a major policy platform?

Imagine if Tory said we are going to consider cutting funding to women's shelters only because they are underused(hypothetical situation). The outcry would be enormous, even if it was 100% justifiable.

I think it’s really sad that poor residents can’t get into yachting too. Maybe we should put a few public yacht clubs in near priority neighbourhoods to change that.
 
I think it's an easy target to go after a sport that is often skewed as "elite" or "white" or "old". While I don't use the city golf courses for a number of reasons, I think it's important to give people a lower cost option for them to learn the game. I've golfed ever since I was a young kid and before Tiger showed up, more courses were somewhat affordable enough that a few of my schoolmates were able to afford a round once and a while. It's already hard enough now to find a course within an hour drive that isn't close to a hundred dollars.

It's funny how we spend so much time and money trying to persuade people to step away from their phones or TVs and yet here we are trying to shut down a sport that requires people spend 4 hours outdoors.
 
I think it's an easy target to go after a sport that is often skewed as "elite" or "white" or "old". While I don't use the city golf courses for a number of reasons, I think it's important to give people a lower cost option for them to learn the game. I've golfed ever since I was a young kid and before Tiger showed up, more courses were somewhat affordable enough that a few of my schoolmates were able to afford a round once and a while. It's already hard enough now to find a course within an hour drive that isn't close to a hundred dollars.

It's funny how we spend so much time and money trying to persuade people to step away from their phones or TVs and yet here we are trying to shut down a sport that requires people spend 4 hours outdoors.

Most decent courses are over 100 a game now. Most condos are impractical for storing golf clubs and most courses are far from anything.

It's a fact of life. Golf is expensive, it is in the middle of nowhere and requires acres of land that do not exist in many places anymore.

I support repurposing the courses into something more useful.
 
It's funny how we spend so much time and money trying to persuade people to step away from their phones or TVs and yet here we are trying to shut down a sport that requires people spend 4 hours outdoors.
This is why I support Polo! Anyone can bring their horse and ball and play in the glorious sunshine. Is there anything more wholesome in the middle of Winter? Camels can also be used. In Dentonia's case, horses and camels can be brought in on the subway, so even the Hoi Polloi can...errr...act as navvies and make some extra cash to score crack. Nothing like a high-scoring game before retiring to the club-house for some caviar and port!

How many golf courses does this city need? Even private ones are selling up where possible.
Toronto's swanky private golf clubs continue sweetheart deal on taxes while other courses attract developers
Decades historic fixed tax agreements for these exclusive enclaves have cost the city millions in deferred taxes, but do they work?
BY RON JOHNSON
Published: Friday, Mar. 9, 2018, 08:42 AM


News-Focus---golf-courses-8a8644ce.jpeg

Clockwise from left: former councillor Howard Moscoe and two courses being turned over to residential development, York Downs and Glen Abbey

Is everyone in the city paying a fair share? That was the question last month, as the City of Toronto was once again deliberating over the Toronto budget.

Are homeowners paying enough or too much? Are small businesses paying too much? Should arts facilities get a special tax class?

There is a movement to keep the city affordable and diverse and not let it become a playground for the rich and fabulous.

So what of old-timey institutions such as private golf clubs? Shouldn’t such places pay their fair share?

Local residents might be surprised to learn that some of the wealthiest enclaves in the city get special tax breaks dating back decades — agreements that are unbreakable, according to City of Toronto officials.

Take Rosedale Golf Club for instance. This very private golf course in central Toronto dates back more than a century. It has ranked as one of the best golf courses in the country.

Membership, if it is offered at all, runs upwards of $90,000. But since the creation of metropolitan Toronto in the 1950s, the club has enjoyed the benefits of a fixed assessment agreement, meaning that property taxes are paid on a historic pre-determined amount. The difference between that amount and the amount payable under the current assessment value is deferred, as is interest on the deferred amount.

Maybe it’s time the playing field was levelled so that the community exacts some sort of benefit, and allow kids or adults from priority neighbourhoods to use the course once a week.

Other clubs that cater to a very exclusive clientele, such as Oakdale Golf & Country Club and the Toronto Hunt Club, get the same deal.

“As it turns out now, the guy who washes the floor in the locker room at these clubs is subsidizing the members of the club,” said Howard Moscoe, a former Toronto city councillor who tried and failed to beat the agreements numerous times over his long career in politics.

His battles over the private golf club dealings are chronicled in his new book released late last year.

“Most people don’t even know of these agreements,” he said.

There were 12 private clubs that got these sweetheart deals, and only nine remain. Moscoe estimates that monies owed to the city could be as much as $41 million. But there is more to it than simple tax breaks.

When the agreements were struck with different metropolitan Toronto areas, such as Etobicoke, Scarborough and North York, the fear was that without them the large tracts of land would become housing developments.

“They are still active contracts that we are bound by today,” said John Longarini, manager, operational support for the city.
[...]
https://www.postcity.com/Eat-Shop-D...es-while-905-courses-are-going-to-developers/

Article continues:
The only way to get the private golf clubs in Toronto to pay taxes at current rates, according to Longarini, would be to amend the provincial legislation, and it doesn’t seem likely.

Given the current demand for housing and the tenuous nature of golf in general, the best move might be to strengthen protections and to exact some additional community benefits. Why not let the public to play on the courses once per week? [...]
Oh yeah, "For the People" and "The Folks"...A 'Buck a Beer' will shut them up and keep them quiet.
 
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It's funny how we spend so much time and money trying to persuade people to step away from their phones or TVs and yet here we are trying to shut down a sport that requires people spend 4 hours outdoors.

That's a misrepresentation of the proposal. The intention is not to develop the land into condos; it's to transform the space into something more people would spend time in.

If that goal is achieved (more people on that land doing outdoors things) then it's actually taking steps toward "... persuad[ing] people to step away from their phones or TVs".


I don't know whether converting golf courses to other uses, or converting things that are currently other uses (like the Toronto Islands) over to a golf course will increase use of outdoor spaces. But this is definitely not a golf course versus nothing discussion.
 
I think it's an easy target to go after a sport that is often skewed as "elite" or "white" or "old". While I don't use the city golf courses for a number of reasons, I think it's important to give people a lower cost option for them to learn the game. I've golfed ever since I was a young kid and before Tiger showed up, more courses were somewhat affordable enough that a few of my schoolmates were able to afford a round once and a while. It's already hard enough now to find a course within an hour drive that isn't close to a hundred dollars.

It's funny how we spend so much time and money trying to persuade people to step away from their phones or TVs and yet here we are trying to shut down a sport that requires people spend 4 hours outdoors.
I agree with your sentiment in general, but for the reasons stated by others, I don't think golf is a good hill to die on, especially given the large environmental cost associated with golf courses.

Personally, I would like to see more public tennis courts throughout the city. Private clubs cost an obscene amount of money here.
 
It took John Tory decades of effort to become mayor, so why is he squandering the opportunity?
In so many ways, his trajectory tacks in the right (no pun intended) direction to be a great and memorable mayor, saying things big city mayors say and supporting bold ideas as he did during his time with CivicAction. Once in office though, there was little follow through.
On a number of issues, it has taken large groups of prominent Torontonians to get the mayor to act decisively and make the right decision, like on police carding and the shelter crisis last winter. Instead of leading the city away from multibillion dollar generational transit mistakes, he’s rebuilding the east Gardiner and keeping Rob Ford’s Scarborough subway alive. Closing pools after promising to keep them open, undermining measures to make Toronto’s deadly streets safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and shelving stormwater and flood mitigation efforts are all leadership failures.

When Doug Ford announced his attack on local democracy, the response Tory mounted was one of equivocation instead of the fierce defence so many Torontonians wanted and needed.
Instead, Tory exhibits a radical fidelity to the status quo in a city with big problems and lots of potential. He’s a true conservative perhaps, but even conservative big city mayors often demonstrate action and boldness because big cities, by their nature, demand it. The status quo is stagnation.

Keeping taxes low certainly wins votes, but with transit and housing files in crisis and worsening inequality, the city feels as if it’s sliding into decline, a slow chipping away, something that is easily ignored if you’re not touched by any of it.
Why does John Tory want to be mayor? This is what’s most confounding about him: a lifetime of effort to attain such a position and, once in, squandering a meaningful legacy despite having incredible political capital. He certainly still wants to be mayor as he refused to part ways with his effective, but controversial adviser Nick Kouvalis, who has undermined the very values Tory says he stands for, another sign of that calculated ruthlessness behind the friendliness.
John Tory would make an excellent Governor General of Toronto, if such a position existed: a glad-handing, friendly figurehead who doesn’t have to deal with messiness of politics, where standing for things and boldly leading the way isn’t required.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...so-why-is-he-squandering-the-opportunity.html
 
Most decent courses are over 100 a game now. Most condos are impractical for storing golf clubs and most courses are far from anything.

It's a fact of life. Golf is expensive, it is in the middle of nowhere and requires acres of land that do not exist in many places anymore.

I support repurposing the courses into something more useful.

That sort of describes skiing/snowboarding as well though, more or less. The moment Earl Bales is in the red should we shut it down? I don't think so.
 
That sort of describes skiing/snowboarding as well though, more or less. The moment Earl Bales is in the red should we shut it down? I don't think so.
Poor example, as Earl Bales Park is a stunning example of what can be done:
Earl Bales Park Free Summer Concert Series - James Pasternak

Earl Bales Park Free Summer Concert Series. Enjoy free entertainment and music all summer long at the Barry Zukerman Amphitheatre in Earl Bales Park.

@ShonTron writes in his blog:
Exploring Earl Bales Park
Posted on April 7, 2017
[...]
A lot is packed into this popular green space: walking trails, playgrounds, picnic areas, a community centre, an amphitheatre, an off-leash dog park, a memorial, a seniors’ woodworking shop, and even a ski hill. Even on the first weekend of April, the park was full of picnicking families and groups; families represented a diverse cross-section of suburban Toronto.
[...]
At the bottom of the hill, there is a large stormwater management pond, and beyond that, the publicly-owned Don Valley Golf Course. Despite the golf course’s civic ownership, access is fenced off and closed circuit cameras monitor the perimeter; only those in proper golf attire and paying green fees, entering from Yonge Street, can make use of these beautiful lands. Both the Avenue Road and Yonge Street crossings of Highway 401 are unpleasant, and even dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists.

With public access, even limited to a designated pathway, would provide a safe and comfortable access under Highway 401 and over to York Mills Station. It is very unfortunate that the city does not allow this.
[...]
https://seanmarshall.ca/2017/04/07/exploring-earl-bales-park/
 

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