[Dan416]

Actually yes, there is - cost. Especially if you want a DRL that matters - i.e one that goes all the way to Eglinton.

AoD

I think the DRL should go up to Sheppard actually.

Of course Sheppard can wait until the DRL is built. And preferably after the Bloor line is extended to Cloverdale or Sherway.

 

[11th]

I think the DRL should go up to Sheppard actually.

Of course Sheppard can wait until the DRL is built. And preferably after the Bloor line is extended to Cloverdale or Sherway.

You do realize anything that involves "Sheppard" and "rapid transit" is pretty much taboo around this board.

Anyways, if GO moves their Oriole station up to Sheppard, and starts all-day bi-directional service, and implement new fare structure for intra-416 trips, then, there won't that the need for extending DRL to Sheppard.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You do realize anything that involves "Sheppard" and "rapid transit" is pretty much taboo around this board.

The DRL up to Sheppard-Don Mills is something I could definitely support. We would see major ridership on this line and it would divert a huge amount of Scarborough/North York riders away from the Yonge line.

And I don't see how Rapid Transit on Sheppard is taboo. Most on the board don't support the Sheppard Subway extension because clearly the ridership is too low.

 

[BurlOak]

Of course, instead of Karen Stintz's sensible plan, Doug Ford (and I guess, by extension, his brother) has another idea.

Fords put a Scarborough subway extension ahead of Downtown Relief Line
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/fords-put-a-scarborough-subway-extension-ahead-of-downtown-relief-line/article10176582/

His stupidity is thoroughly frustrating.

Which is the best definition of stupidity

1) Build 30 km of transit lines from Weston Road to Malvern, for over $6B, have most of it grade-separated, but leave a 5 km section near the middle, in the median of the road to ensure that it will not operate automatically and will not be a true rapid transit, when for 5% extra the entire line could be built grade-separated (elevated).

2) Prioritize LRT in the median of Finch and Sheppard when the projected demand is 3,000 to 5,000 ppdph, even though it could be handled by articulated buses for the near future, and also antagonize roughly half the population to make it much harder to implement any additional transit revenues, all when deferring these lines would have been acceptable to those along those routes and the money could have been used for the DRL that will serve 3 or 4 times as many people.

3) Prioritize the Sheppard subway extension to Scarborough Town Centre when that amount of money could be used in other ways (DRL, Grade-separated Eglinton-SRT) to provide greater benefit to Scarborough.

 

[gweed123]

Which is the best definition of stupidity

1) Build 30 km of transit lines from Weston Road to Malvern, for over $6B, have most of it grade-separated, but leave a 5 km section near the middle, in the median of the road to ensure that it will not operate automatically and will not be a true rapid transit, when for 5% extra the entire line could be built grade-separated (elevated).

2) Prioritize LRT in the median of Finch and Sheppard when the projected demand is 3,000 to 5,000 ppdph, even though it could be handled by articulated buses for the near future, and also antagonize roughly half the population to make it much harder to implement any additional transit revenues, all when deferring these lines would have been acceptable to those along those routes and the money could have been used for the DRL that will serve 3 or 4 times as many people.

3) Prioritize the Sheppard subway extension to Scarborough Town Centre when that amount of money could be used in other ways (DRL, Grade-separated Eglinton-SRT) to provide greater benefit to Scarborough.

Is all of the above an option???

Downgrading Sheppard East and Finch West to BRT, and diverting that now-extra money into grade-separating Eglinton to create a 10% grade-separated line, while all the while pissing everybody off considerably less? Nah, makes too much sense.

 

[drum118]

You do realize anything that involves "Sheppard" and "rapid transit" is pretty much taboo around this board.

Anyways, if GO moves their Oriole station up to Sheppard, and starts all-day bi-directional service, and implement new fare structure for intra-416 trips, then, there won't that the need for extending DRL to Sheppard.

Not only it should go to Sheppard from "Day One", but to Steeles as Phase 1. Phase 2 would be to hwy 7.

By doing phase 1, you just suck a huge amount of riders off the Yonge line that free up the badly needed space that is needed for today, let alone 20 years down the road.

Even if GO moves Oriole station up to Sheppard, you still going to need the DRL going north of it down the road, since it will be making stops not service by GO in the first place.

Sheppard can be a subway way down the road, as an LRT will do the job just find until then.

Speed is not important when it comes to serving the local areas. Only a small % want the speed, but do want higher quality of service than they get today.

 

[11th]

The DRL up to Sheppard-Don Mills is something I could definitely support. We would see major ridership on this line and it would divert a huge amount of Scarborough/North York riders away from the Yonge line.

And I don't see how Rapid Transit on Sheppard is taboo. Most on the board don't support the Sheppard Subway extension because clearly the ridership is too low.

But then those who think so, support the current planned LRT, which, according to some , aren't supposed to serve as "rapid transit" in the first place. The amount of in-between blocks stops is stupidity.

 

[W. K. Lis]

But then those who think so, support the current planned LRT, which, according to some , aren't supposed to serve as "rapid transit" in the first place. The amount of in-between blocks stops is stupidity.

If there is no one waiting at the stops, or no one pressed the "next stop" button or pulled the cord, it would bypass those stops.

 

[Neil]

Not only it should go to Sheppard from "Day One", but to Steeles as Phase 1. Phase 2 would be to hwy 7.

By doing phase 1, you just suck a huge amount of riders off the Yonge line that free up the badly needed space that is needed for today, let alone 20 years down the road.

Even if GO moves Oriole station up to Sheppard, you still going to need the DRL going north of it down the road, since it will be making stops not service by GO in the first place.

Sheppard can be a subway way down the road, as an LRT will do the job just find until then.

Speed is not important when it comes to serving the local areas. Only a small % want the speed, but do want higher quality of service than they get today.

In the east, I think the DRL should take over from the Richmond Hill GO line. A Don Mills alignment intersects with the Richmond Hill GO just north of Lawrence. The DRL would transition to this corridor and go all the way to Richmond Hill and beyond. Much easier to build a new storage yard up there. The southern end of the Richmond Hill line is rather circuitous and if abandoned it would also help to unload Union station. I would not extend the current Yonge line beyond Steeles.

 

[drum118]

In the east, I think the DRL should take over from the Richmond Hill GO line. A Don Mills alignment intersects with the Richmond Hill GO just north of Lawrence. The DRL would transition to this corridor and go all the way to Richmond Hill and beyond. Much easier to build a new storage yard up there. The southern end of the Richmond Hill line is rather circuitous and if abandoned it would also help to unload Union station. I would not extend the current Yonge line beyond Steeles.

That is why I am pushing for standard gauge, as well double deck cars for the DRL. There is to be a branch line off the DRL that will connect to the RHL at Lawrence Ave. Having a 8/10 double deck EMU train will handle future ridership load a lot better than single level cars. They will not be like GO DD cars.

 

[Solid Snake]

Is all of the above an option???

Downgrading Sheppard East and Finch West to BRT, and diverting that now-extra money into grade-separating Eglinton to create a 10% grade-separated line, while all the while pissing everybody off considerably less? Nah, makes too much sense.

What's truly beyond me is this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world's_most_expensive_transport_infrastructure

Eglinton Crosstown is on the top 25 most expensive transport infrastructure in the world. So much money going into that project and people are still defending that line being at grade???? I find it insane.

"Well the trains will short turn in the tunnel in case of an accident"
Subways can short turn too and when there's a problem at North York Centre, guess what... The whole line gets screwed. An you think they'll do better with an LRT at grade???

That line will be as good as it's weakest link...

Ford?
Populist, ignorant on transit file and bias for the inner suburbs

Stinz?
Self-interest flip flop...nuff said

Miller/Giambrone
Transit criminals...8.4 Billions???If they would have done the right thing, by 2015 and the Pan Am games, the DRL would have been completed and we would be riding on that subway line going in and out of downtown planning what to do with the SRT and Eglinton.

How can you defend those 2 who deliberately chose their pet project LRT for CLEARLY self-centered reasons over what the city needed the most... a subway line downtown.

If you build a subway, you're just another mayor who got money from the province to extend the subway for you.

But 120km of LRT (cough all rapid transit cough)...That makes you a legend...He could have been if he had started with the DRL first.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So much money going into which portion of the project? As is the project is supposed to cost 4B. 8B is for the buried scheme.

Anyways, beyond the issue of accounting, you think that the province will dole out, through Metrolinx, 8.4B for a transit line that just benefits, from their political perspective, downtown? Right. Don't make it sound like Miller killed DRL when no one at the time even brought it up as something that the city should think about, much less funded. And hell, when it comes to Ford, you are talking about someone who on his campaign basically said that he will sacrifice ALL the other lines just to have Sheppard and BD extension to STC. That isn't ignorant on the transit file, that's gunning for the Scarborough vote (i.e. self-centred reasons). Where is your crucifix for him? And this guy couldn't even get a required vote passed for his MOU with Mlinx - he had a year before Stintz jumped ship. That's not ignorance on the transit file - it's incompetence.

And FYI, wiki is hardly great research, especially considering the proviso at the top regarding the representativeness of the info presented.

AoD

 

[11th]

If there is no one waiting at the stops, or no one pressed the "next stop" button or pulled the cord, it would bypass those stops.

Wouldn't that increase the chance of bunching ? I'd rather they stop at every station/stop, much like some other cities' LRT lines (L.A.'s gold line, C-train), to allow better spacing of headways. I mean, you want to sell this plan to people who don't want "streetcar" - why make it anymore similar to a streetcar than a metro?

 

[GenerationW]

I wish Scarborough were not part of Toronto.
I mean it has a population similar to Vancouver, why not just be on its own. They can build all the subway they want.

I wish you were not part of Toronto.

Not only it should go to Sheppard from "Day One", but to Steeles as Phase 1. Phase 2 would be to hwy 7.

Totally unrealistic to think "Phase 1" funding will deliver a DRL all the way up to Steeles or Sheppard. Getting it to Eglinton & Don Mills initially rather than Danforth & Pape will be difficult enough.

Anyways, beyond the issue of accounting, you think that the province will dole out, through Metrolinx, 8.4B for a transit line that just benefits, from their political perspective, downtown? Right. Don't make it sound like Miller killed DRL when no one at the time even brought it up as something that the city should think about, much less funded. And hell, when it comes to Ford, you are talking about someone who on his campaign basically said that he will sacrifice ALL the other lines just to have Sheppard and BD extension to STC. That isn't ignorant on the transit file, that's gunning for the Scarborough vote (i.e. self-centred reasons). Where is your crucifix for him? And this guy couldn't even get a required vote passed for his MOU with Mlinx - he had a year before Stintz jumped ship. That's not ignorance on the transit file - it's incompetence.

The province stressed again and again that we could spend the eight billion on any transit project(s) we wanted as long as Council approved. If, to take it to the extreme, we had chosen to spend it all on a DRL from Dundas West to Eglinton, there is zero evidence they would have objected. Not to mention that the province could hardly object to anything after Spadina was approved even though David Miller lobbied against it in his first term, and Miller, seeing that his preference of a Sheppard extension had no chance, played nice with the province and threw his full support behind Spadina.

Many people brought up the DRL at those LRT information meetings, and were given a standard answer by Giambrone -- Transit City covered all our current priorities and would have to be finished first, and then maybe a DRL would be considered 15 or so years down the road......maybe.

And if no one in Council or the TTC knew or cared about the DRL back then, then why not? Today, everyone at the TTC and their mother is telling us a DRL is our biggest priority, and whatever is second is apparently not even close. Are we supposed to believe that senior TTC planners in 2007 saw no need at all need for a DRL when Transit City was released? Well 2-3 years later, the TTC started talking up a DRL as a priority when it appeared the Yonge extension might get the go-ahead. How could the DRL basically not exist in Miller-Giambrone TTC-land one day (because that's essentially what they told us with Transit City) but be a well-thought out idea and a priority the next? Answer: it couldn't.

This is a case of the relative power of Miller and Giambrone in the 07-10 Council which allowed Transit City to pass pretty much unopposed and at the expense of a DRL. The Fords are surely 100% (or more) to blame for continuing this mess, but Miller and Giambrone are surely 100% to blame for starting it. They had a blank slate and an unprecedented amount of funding, but were either irresponsible for rejecting our biggest priority or incompetent for failing to recognize it.

 

[BurlOak]

Not only it should go to Sheppard from "Day One", but to Steeles as Phase 1. Phase 2 would be to hwy 7.

By doing phase 1, you just suck a huge amount of riders off the Yonge line that free up the badly needed space that is needed for today, let alone 20 years down the road.

Totally unrealistic to think "Phase 1" funding will deliver a DRL all the way up to Steeles or Sheppard. Getting it to Eglinton & Don Mills initially rather than Danforth & Pape will be difficult enough.

I would think that "day 1" would mean the first contract. If it is a P3, the entire line from Spadina (avenue, not station) to Seneca College (Steeles) could be one contract. (Maybe if the optimum route for the West leg can be determined, extension to Bloor line could also be included). There would be stagerred openings, with south of Pape open by 2020, south of Eglinton by 2022, and to Seneca by 2025. Also, some bonusses could be added for early opening.