The site would be perfect for Toronto's next piece of civic architecture, like a museum, opera house, or perhaps a massive library (see that new one in South Korea if you don't think a library can look incredible). However, there's no money for it now. I'd rather the site sit as-is than have a casino built.

I desperately don't want a casino, but Ontario Place combined with the Ex grounds could be combined into something impressive. However, the current PC government is going to be pushing austerity, so there's no chance anything happens here (other than a casino) without significant private investment (in other words, sale of land to developers).

Honestly I'd be happy for the Ontario Place lands to be sold off to UofT for a small-ish amount. Would make a great waterfront campus and could incorporate lots of public elements.
 
I desperately don't want a casino, but Ontario Place combined with the Ex grounds could be combined into something impressive. However, the current PC government is going to be pushing austerity, so there's no chance anything happens here (other than a casino) without significant private investment (in other words, sale of land to developers).
I would not be so optimistic.

Drug Ford will want a legacy project, austerity be damned.
 
Ontario Place combined with the Ex grounds could be combined into something impressive.

Yeah, a private company sees this much land and they'll grab it and run with it,
look what Cedar Fair Entertainment has done with Canada's Wonderland
Expect something out of the ordinary here
 
Frankly I don't care whether or not we have a casino, but if we do, just don't build it at Ontario Place. There is just not enough transit in the area. Of course, this is a common problem in this city, and it is not about to be solved.
 
The debate about casinos in general in Toronto is already over as we already have one being converted to full table games within the City limits at Woodbine. That project started during the previous Liberal Government and has the endorsement of City Council so I don't really think rehashing old debates about gaming in general makes sense here. The question is what to do with Ontario place? I concur with the argument that basically Ford's government will want to do something substantial with the Ontario Place Lands without public money input and maybe as a bonus do so above the heads of City Council. Sounds very Casino-ish
 
Could do a lot with this area of land. Just look at Chicago. I’d look to putting a museum or planetarium, a casino, amusement park of some sort. Make it an entertainment hub.

The Ferris wheel isn’t that bad of an idea either.
 
I concur with the argument that basically Ford's government will want to do something substantial with the Ontario Place Lands without public money input and maybe as a bonus do so above the heads of City Council. Sounds very Casino-ish
Exactly. Here's hoping not. Let's keep Ontario Place in the family-friendly sphere.

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family-friendly sphere
That's a good definition. You don't have to be a goody-two-shoes to appreciate that's the most apt use. And also provide more friendly access to the water. Beaches are cheap in the big scheme of things, and odd as it may seem to some, that part of Toronto doesn't have any from Sunnyside over to south Cherry. Water quality is an issue, but so is it at other Toronto beaches, many of which are fine if the water quality is acceptable.
 
Well from millions of visitors a year to just 1/2 million before they shut down
..yeah i'd say they were to blame for not doing enough to keep it exciting and vibrant

The previous government dragged their feet with Ontario Place by shutting the park down and then keeping it dormant for years without having any plan for it whatsoever. Then the decided to piecemeal the revitalization by splitting the park up into sections and coming up with a plan for one section, while sitting on their hands and pondering what to do with the other section. It's the other section (ie: the one that the current PC government is reviewing altogether) that I am blaming them for the foot dragging.

  • OK, I get the logic now. Agree. The problem I had with the original site was it didn't have a clear 'message'. Was it a park? Provincial showcase? Amusement park? Event venue? Pub mall? I like the 'family friendly sphere angle. It has to be mindful of our climate and man-made beaches require a lot of science to maintain quality and viability. It's more than just dumping a bunch of sand.
 
  • OK, I get the logic now. Agree. The problem I had with the original site was it didn't have a clear 'message'. Was it a park? Provincial showcase? Amusement park? Event venue? Pub mall? I like the 'family friendly sphere angle. It has to be mindful of our climate and man-made beaches require a lot of science to maintain quality and viability. It's more than just dumping a bunch of sand.

Ontario Place was originally a catch all destination designed to showcase Ontario.

You had the attractions for the kids, HMCS Haida for those interested in history. For adults you had the Forum, pubs and Cinesphere.

It was designed to be an attraction for everyone.

I remember Ontario Place being an amazing place in the early 1990s but as the decade went on it wavered from the original vision and became more like an amusement park.
 
It has to be mindful of our climate and man-made beaches require a lot of science to maintain quality and viability. It's more than just dumping a bunch of sand.
You're talking an expansive beach. I'm talking something very small, and there's already some inlets from the lake into coves. I know, because when I walk the Big Black Lab across the waterfront, Ont Place is the only place I can find to allow him to dip into the water to get soaked. It's not drinking water dogs need to deal with the heat so much, it's getting soaked to stay cool. Cherry Beach dog park takes next to no upkeep, and it's sand on fill. There are no ponds or pools for dogs in the core that I'm aware of. It's Toronto, and too abstract a concept for here.
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But beyond making that point, it appears that beaches already exist....or did. The West Island is mostly inaccessible right now, but looks like it hosts an extensive one, and as per "Echo Beach" no-one I've talked to down there seems to be aware of its existence. What I was doing (although the Lab is now aging, he's nine and half and it's unwise to walk him more than 10 kms or so even soaked) was literally walking from the east end of the city to the west along the waterfront trying to stick to the water's edge...very difficult especially in the core section. We'd enter from the 'East Entrance' get him soaked from where the grass merges into the water almost dead centre of the map, and then exit across the most western bridge. From there to Sunnyside, there's no other place to wet a dog, let alone a kid.(Edit: In the Lake) It's concrete barrier across the Waterfront. How absolutely absurd for a "world class city" hosting an agency specifically called "Waterfront Toronto".

Lots of facilities for yachts though...

And now I Google, I realize why I'd missed the "beach":
Toronto Echo Beach
Outdoor medium sized venue at Ontario Place, downtown Toronto, Canada
Venue is next to and managed by the Toronto Molson Amphitheatre - Live Nation
Venue websites: http://www.ontarioplace.com/echo-beach
http://www.livenation.com/venues/14914/td-echo-beach

But look here!
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/To...23555502ab4c477!8m2!3d43.653226!4d-79.3831843

Wouldn't you know it? Closed off to the public...I always wondered what's behind that gate on the path/road and the chain-link fence keeping out mere mortal taxpayers.

Great place for a gambling casino...and a ferris wheel. Maybe a monorail? And more berths for the filthy rich to park their yachts...

Post Edit: It's a safe assumption that there's more dogs than children in the lower central core of the City, and there are some fairly good dog parks, but none with wading or swimming pools for dogs to get soaked in. Toronto has catered well to splash pads for kids for generations, but dogs are not allowed in them (for understandable reasons) and I can accept the reluctance to provide dog dips in the past, but with so many condo dwellers with dogs, it's well past time to start. And providing access to the Lake, even in a modest way, makes more sense than fixed splash pads for dogs in terms of the water circulating.

Just as we need to provide amenities for humans to stay healthy and exercise, so it is with dogs. And as average temperatures continue to rise, that's not an amenity. It's a necessity. Healthy dogs inspire healthy people, and vice versa.
 

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Photos taken today from the formerly locked out (last year) most westerly path around Ontario Place. Had walked from Keele/Bloor w/ Big Black Lab down through High-Park, across Sunnyside Beach, where his last swim was, across the concrete waterfront from there to OP, over the western bridge nr Cinesphere, and onto this path which was inaccessible last time I was there. Big Black Lab able to do distance in this cooler weather, very good shape for almost ten, but couldn't wait to get back in water first chance, which was this washed out section on the western most tip, photos following are for the potentially excellent improved beach that Nature has created on the south side of western portion, fears of sand being washed away are unfounded, there is sand in spots, ostensibly naturally occurring. See prior post above for the beach being discussed.


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All photos my own by cheap cell-phone.

I'll write more comments for these pics in a following post, but why in the world would the Cons want to defile this?

This is a gem....and the only beach between Cherry Beach and Sunnyside, imperfect as it is. Met some lovely people down there, many visitors to Toronto, all horrified when informed of what the Cons are ruminating for it.
 

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Steve - I wasn't arguing that beaches cannot be created; only that simply dumping a truckload of sand in the water does not guarantee a permanent beach. Many cottagers have found this out. Wind and currents can both create and destroy a beach - natural and otherwise - in a short period of time. Stone or 'shingle' beaches can also work for both people and pet access and they are more resilient to wind and wave action. Not as soft and nice on the tootsies but dogs don't care.

While I recall much of the inner and outer shoreline around Ontario Place to be lined with 'river rock' (round stone), when I worked there many moons ago I recall a number of inner shorelines being construction rubble with visible rebar.

BTW - My favorite dog breed!
 
Steve - I wasn't arguing that beaches cannot be created; only that simply dumping a truckload of sand in the water does a permanent beach make. Many cottagers have found this out. Wind and currents can both create and destroy a beach - natural and otherwise - in a short period of time.

While I recall much of the inner and outer shoreline around Ontario Place to be lined with 'river rock' (round stone), when I worked there many moons ago I recall a number of inner shorelines being construction rubble with visible rebar.
The western tip shows that, (the first pic) I didn't post all my pics taken today, but the southern one featured in the later shots is devoid of any construction detritus. In fact I have to wonder if it wasn't a featured beach at one time, but talking to all the staff, the feeling is (for the ones I talked to who've been there for years) it is a natural beach, or it wouldn't have lasted all these years. It just needs a cursory cleaning (torn beer cans, etc) but in fact is a lot cleaner than many other beaches in the city, most of which have the sand trucked in, and then cleaned almost daily.

I have to repeat: It's a gem. And the re-opened part last year is starting to mature nicely, the gardens are in very good shape.

Edit to Add: The last two pics haunted me as I get overwhelming deja-vu looking at them. I've figured it out looking at pics I took earlier this year:

Port Darlington, from Lakeshore Rd, travelling west and looking southwest. Lake scene is almost identical.
 
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