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Duck
Guest
What is this plan for an airside PeopleMover? Where would it go? What technology?
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- Thread starter p5connex
- Start date
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
You know after the Master Plan documents in 1999, and 2008 I was expecting a master plan to be coming soon but it doesn't seem like that's happening. Granted most of the development of the airport has happened or is on the books ready to go, but it would be nice to get some updates as timelines and circumstances change.
The airside people mover would be one thing that would be discussed in a new master plan, if it were released. However I have looked and can't find anything on it.
muller877
Senior Member
They haven't contemplated anything (yet). I assume it would go from Pier D to T3 below (or above?) where Jazz brings their smaller planes around the end of the terminal. It's not a long walk and doesn't need anything fancy. I assume it's just a moving walkway (and maybe a fast one like to the end of Pier for international flights).
It's probably longer to walk to the end of Pier D than it is to get from the end of Pier D to T3.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Why not connect each pier. It can be a long walk down and then back up a pier. If you put a station at the base (or halfway up) of each pier it would make it easy to transfer between each.
muller877
Senior Member
The Piers are US, Canadian and International each with different customs (and sometimes the Pier is 1/2 and 1/2). So we are only really talking about connecting Cdn with Cdn. Anything else would be overly complicated.
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Duck
Guest
Oh - I was going by this:
So I am not sure which is right. An Airside APM would be great, but I have a difficult time picturing what the routing would be, with the somewhat complicated layout of T1 and T3. The "part of a hub and spoke" design I imagine was made with the idea that walking times were reduced at the hub, but the downside now is that routing an APM up each of those spokes and back down again doesn't really make much sense. It would have to probably be tunneled, underground, and connect stations located halfway up each pier.
Maybe it could be something like IAH's little LIM powered trains. I love those!
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
The only complicating factor is the US Pre-clearance aspect of the airport. All passengers who have been cleared through US customs pre-clearance must remain segregated from the rest of the passengers. As of right now US pre-clearance flights operate out of some combination of pier A, F, Hammerhead F, and portions of E, these areas are "flex" and are able to switch between US and regular gates. With the construction of Pier G, the US flights could be moved there to have a segregated area.
I don't think Canadian and International flights have very much different in terms of security requirements, arrivals just are directed to customs. An airside transporter would connect international to Canadian gates making connections between international flights and domestic locations easier.
jamincan
Active Member
The thing with preclearance is that people are never going to be transferring from a precleared zone to another part of the airport. The precleared zone is always the final zone before boarding. Similarly, people going to a precleared zone are first going to have to go through preclearance, which means they would be dropped off somewhere outside a precleared zone. In other words, connecting a precleared part of the airport to another part doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the first place.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
A passenger arriving on a domestic flight from, say, Winnipeg and connecting to an international flight to, say, Abu Dhabi isn't going to have to pass through any additional security than what they passed through in Winnipeg. Conversely on the reverse trip the passenger should (emphasis mine) be able to connect to their flight to Winnipeg without passing through Canadian customs, they would, IMO, pass through customs at the end of their journey in Winnipeg.
In the above example Westjet flight 476 from Winnipeg typically uses pier B at Terminal 3, then flight EY140 to Abu Dhabi uses the Pier F hammerhead. This is a tedious connection, a airside people mover connection would make that connection easier.
Again the only additional security that a passenger would have to pass through would be on flights to the US where they clear US customs here in Canada before boarding their flight. A passenger connecting from an international flight with an ultimate destination in the US, would have to pass through US pre-clearance. If all US bound flights were moved to a certain pier than pre-clearance facilities could be built at the airside APM station
In the above example Westjet flight 476 from Winnipeg typically uses pier B at Terminal 3, then flight EY140 to Abu Dhabi uses the Pier F hammerhead. This is a tedious connection, a airside people mover connection would make that connection easier.
Again the only additional security that a passenger would have to pass through would be on flights to the US where they clear US customs here in Canada before boarding their flight. A passenger connecting from an international flight with an ultimate destination in the US, would have to pass through US pre-clearance. If all US bound flights were moved to a certain pier than pre-clearance facilities could be built at the airside APM station
Voltz
Senior Member
That can't be done, other passengers on the flight would be domestic passengers, and must be segregated from international passengers. You would have to have an international connecting passengers only flight from Toronto to Winnipeg, just not practical.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
The Pearson connecting flights tool seems to indicate the only reason for leaving the airside post security area on a domestic to international, international to international, flight is to take the airport link train. So therefore and airside link should remove the need to re-check through security. Nowhere do they indicate the need to go through security again, except for use of the Link train (which is pre security).
I guess the international to domestic connection would have a wrinkle as well. Still think there are more opportunities to improve connections than there are complications.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I thought it was standard (if not a rule/mandatory even) that you clear customs at your first point of entry into a country. So someone flying from, say, Toronto to Glasgow with Air Canada that lands at Heathrow before switching planes....clears UK customs at Heathrow. Someone flying from Abu Dhabi to Winnipeg via Toronto would have to clear customs in Toronto.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
My mistake on the international to domestic connections and clearing customs. Sorry all.
TOareaFan
Superstar
voltz explained a logistical problem created if you allowed people to connect before clearing customs.....but I do not think that is the core reason.
by making that passenger from Abu Dhabi clear customs in Toronto rather than after they move on to Winnipeg....it is a lot easier to get people out of the country if they are trying to enter illegally than it would be from Winnipeg.