Bollards are the fastest way to solve the problem, they visually outline the line between cars and people
 
Thanks Edward Keenan.
We need more of the media writing this kind of article to get WT's attention. They don't seem to care at all about what's going on there. Someone is going to die.
 
pstogios said:
Thanks Edward Keenan.
We need more of the media writing this kind of article to get WT's attention. They don't seem to care at all about what's going on there. Someone is going to die.
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Why would you think that WT isn't spending an enormous amount of man-hours debating what to do? This is their signature project, with the focus of the Pan-Am games about to put them under the microscope. On the contrary, I expect the problem is the thought their scheme was the most efficient, and now that it's obvious it is not living up to their expectations, they're debating what to do - endlessly.

Hopefully, they take a few columns like this to heart and ask a Keenan and some other 'semi-experts' to give them a few suggestions. I like the Jarvis-style lights and (someone else's) red painted 'no cars' sign on the streetcar ROW. Both could be very useful.
 
the lemur said:
I can't help thinking that's at least half of the problem. Drivers (and other road users) often sail obliviously into (new) situations and blithely assume things are the way they want them to be.
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Indeed - not familiar = drive slower, pay more attention. Not barge in, cause a SNAFU and then complain about how it is everything but problems with the drivers. In a sad way perhaps things are too predictable in Toronto, reducing those with already low driving skills to the point of being unable to handle anything out of the ordinary (case in point, think about the amount of grief something as universal as traffic circles creates in the Ontario setting).

AoD
 
pstogios said:
Thanks Edward Keenan.
We need more of the media writing this kind of article to get WT's attention. They don't seem to care at all about what's going on there. Someone is going to die.
Click to expand...
Are you saying WT doesn't care about what happening down there??????????????

If so, you are sooooooo Wrooooong.

Start blaming MTO for not being in the 21st for traffic signals. Then blame Transportation for their out dated thinking. Most of all, blame the fire department and EMS for not allowing grass in place of concrete for the ROW that was originally plan for it.

You need to blame the clueless drivers for not knowing how to drive and read signs. Cabs need to be banned from the area since they block traffic by failing to respect everyone in the first place.

WT can only do small things since the rest is out of their control in the first place. We knew there were going to be issues from day one when we design the road as its something totally new to Toronto for everyone and would take sometime for everyone to understand the huge change where traffic is on one side of the road, not both.

Someone always dies on the roads and QQ will be no different than rest of the city for it. The only way to stop it, you ban cars 100% for being down there in the first place and that not going to happen.
 
Agreed. WaterfrontTO does indeed seem to be paying attention and have already started making changes. They've asked for public feedback.

Solid yellow lines mean you stay on the right side of the line. How is this confusing for drivers? There are signs everywhere down there. Maybe people should start looking at them.
 
drum118 said:
Start blaming MTO for not being in the 21st for traffic signals. Then blame Transportation for their out dated thinking. Most of all, blame the fire department and EMS for not allowing grass in place of concrete for the ROW that was originally plan for it.

You need to blame the clueless drivers for not knowing how to drive and read signs. Cabs need to be banned from the area since they block traffic by failing to respect everyone in the first place.
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No. You cannot design something and then blame others for the failures in your design. Banning cabs (in the city? hello??), dismissing drivers or pedestrians as 'clueless' is defensive and delusional, I mean who the heck did ya think this thing was built for? Ignoring human behaviour and then being pouty and harumphy that people actually exhibit it is sort of the problem in a nutshell... and unfortunately someone will tragically pay the price for this incompetence (then - knowing the zealots in this city - will likely be blamed for their own death).
 
Easiest fix to keep cars off the streetcar ROWs is to stop the cars at the entrance. The below image shows two options, the retractable bollard and the trench at the tracks (emergency vehicles can still navigate this)

dgcrc6g5_307db7ctccx_b.jpg


Traffic_bollard_in_Sofia_lets_the_tram_pass_by_tehn_deploys_again_20090406_006.JPG
 
Tewder said:
No. You cannot design something and then blame others for the failures in your design. Banning cabs (in the city? hello??), dismissing drivers or pedestrians as 'clueless' is defensive and delusional, I mean who the heck did ya think this thing was built for? Ignoring human behaviour and then being pouty and harumphy that people actually exhibit it is sort of the problem in a nutshell... and unfortunately someone will tragically pay the price for this incompetence (then - knowing the zealots in this city - will likely be blamed for their own death).
Click to expand...

Human behaviour is malleable, and quite frankly users need to take some responsibilities for their actions on shared spaces instead of blaming design. Funny how design can be "incompetent" while mistakes are relegated as "human behaviour". That's coddling.

And sorry, urban living entail risks - and the safest designs are often the most boring, soul-deadening ones. Most certainly not what you wanted along the waterfront.

AoD
 
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