[smallspy]

To put this into perspective, the Jane bus carries only 3760 per week (537 per day). Only a fraction of those riders would be heading south into Toronto, and of those riders, an even smaller fraction would be using Highway 407 Station, because VMC Station is closer for nearly everyone along the route.

What Jane bus are you talking about?

The YRT Jane bus (route 20) carries over 3500 per weekday, and while the peak point of the route is immediately north of Highway 7, a very good fraction of that ridership begins or ends their trips in Toronto. The TTC's 35D is almost another 1000 for the 6 hours per day that it runs, and it is almost exclusively Toronto-oriented traffic.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Richard White]

It is pretty impressive that Toronto managed to finish 6 subway stations/8 kilometers in a matter of 9 years. What an achievement. Now we can focus on spending the next 10 years in building that one stop subway in Scarborough. With that speed, we will catch up with Madrid soon. I am very excited.

For the record Madrid actually wants things built and have less restrictions and processes for doing so.


Here you have EAs, consultations, various stages etc. In Madrid they doodle a line on a map, get funding and build a subway.

 

[ShonTron]

For the record Madrid actually wants things built and have less restrictions and processes for doing so.


Here you have EAs, consultations, various stages etc. In Madrid they doodle a line on a map, get funding and build a subway.

Yeah, I'm sure Madrid skips frivolous things like engineering studies, soil testing, utility location, planning assessments and community consultation. That's all just red tape.

 

[Richard White]

Yeah, I'm sure Madrid skips frivolous things like engineering studies, soil testing, utility location, planning assessments and community consultation. That's all just red tape.

To put it into perspective. We have the roll of red tape but they only use a strip of it.

 

[cplchanb]

To put it into perspective. We have the roll of red tape but they only use a strip of it.

more like 4 rolls if you factor in the fact we need to appease every single minority interest groups/lobbyists before even the tender stage.

 

[Sandpit]

Yeah, I'm sure Madrid skips frivolous things like engineering studies, soil testing, utility location, planning assessments and community consultation. That's all just red tape.

IIRC it costs $300 million/km to build a subway in Toronto, vs $150-200 million/km in most European cities.

 

[TOareaFan]

This discussion moved very quickly from "we should never have built these stations" to "we took too long to build these stations"

 

[TheTigerMaster]

IIRC it costs $300 million/km to build a subway in Toronto, vs $150-200 million/km in most European cities.

Geological conditions has a big impact on price.

 

[ksun]

For the record Madrid actually wants things built and have less restrictions and processes for doing so.

Here you have EAs, consultations, various stages etc. In Madrid they doodle a line on a map, get funding and build a subway.

For the record, CONSTRUCTION started in July 2008. I suppose most of EA and consultations precede that?
9 years for 6 stations, and some of us actually think it is normal, even trying to justify that (oh, it is because we do things properly).

 

[cplchanb]

For the record, CONSTRUCTION started in July 2008. I suppose most of EA and consultations precede that?
9 years for 6 stations, and some of us actually think it is normal, even trying to justify that (oh, it is because we do things properly).

to put it into perspective
china did 1300km in 3(!) years for beijing to shanghai hsr! sure you can argue workforce and cheap labour but even at 1% of that production is still 13km in 3 years....
makes our construction standards look second rate.

15 years ago shanghai had virtually nothing in terms of metros. in the space of that time they now have over 20 lines. we are still stuck with 2.2 lines. says alot

 

[TOareaFan]

to put it into perspective
china did 1300km in 3(!) years for beijing to shanghai hsr! sure you can argue workforce and cheap labour but even at 1% of that production is still 13km in 3 years....
makes our construction standards look second rate.

15 years ago shanghai had virtually nothing in terms of metros. in the space of that time they now have over 20 lines. we are still stuck with 2.2 lines. says alot

democracy is messy.

 

[LNahid2000]

to put it into perspective
china did 1300km in 3(!) years for beijing to shanghai hsr! sure you can argue workforce and cheap labour but even at 1% of that production is still 13km in 3 years....
makes our construction standards look second rate.

15 years ago shanghai had virtually nothing in terms of metros. in the space of that time they now have over 20 lines. we are still stuck with 2.2 lines. says alot

And no labour laws either. I prefer living in Canada where we have human rights, even if it means building subways takes way longer.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

democracy is messy.

China has a tremendous - and you know there's not a lot of things I like about the Chinese - But the Chinese have a tremendous transit system. We used to win like the Chinese, but we don't anymore 'cause of those stupid and weak leaders in City Hall.

If I were dictator, Toronto transit would be fixed so quick, believe me. I'd get rid of these weak leaders in City Hall and Queens Park and build so much transit. Toronto would have the most tremendous transit. We'd build so much transit that you'd get tired of all the transit we're building. In fact, you'll beg me to stop building. But I'll keep on building and we'll keep on winning and you're gonna love it. Believe me

 

[Sandpit]

Geological conditions has a big impact on price.

And safety standards, for both workers and passengers. We have perhaps the highest safety standards in the world, and a worker still died during construction.

 

[Sandpit]

To put this in further perspective, our current least used station (Bessarion) carries 3,000 people per day. Highway 407 would be lucky to have a sixth the ridership. There are probably hudreds of bus and streetcar stops in the city that have greater ridership than Highway 407. The lack of ridership at this station is going to be unprecedented.

Highway 407 and VMC stations should have been consolidated into one station (by shifting VMC station so that it is entirely south of Highway 7) but obviously it's too late for that. That said, I think ridership wouldn't be as low as some people think. Look at Richmond Hill Centre: there's some stuff within walking distance (like the SilverCity) but the walk-in traffic is probably negligible. Instead, the terminal is kept decently busy by PPUDO and as a transfer point.