[M II A II R II K]

It's also too bad that ICTS wasn't done properly in the first place where it would criss cross low density areas of the city where subways aren't warranted as a transit missing middle.

 

[LNahid2000]

Sure, they don't have democracy and all sort of neighbourhood consultation and endless reports but I am sure it has done the general taxpayer a real good deed, saved a lot of money, and people's life has been vastly improved. Yes, we have democracy, which we pretend is the real reason everything is slow and that it is all worth it. Fine, have fun keep talking about the London-Toronto high speed rail (which I doubt we will see in 10 years) and those fantasy subway maps.

lol really? Quality of life in China is nowhere close to Canada.

 

[amnesiajune]

In 1997, it took 9 hours to travel from Shanghai to my hometown, which is 300 km away (involving crossing the Yangtze River). Since 2010, it takes 3.5 hours because not one, but two bridges were built, and the highways are far better. A few days ago, it was announced a high speed rail would be constructed starting this Nov, which is to be completely by 2020, by then it will take 1 hour to travel between the two cities.

Sure, they don't have democracy and all sort of neighbourhood consultation and endless reports but I am sure it has done the general taxpayer a real good deed, saved a lot of money, and people's life has been vastly improved. Yes, we have democracy, which we pretend is the real reason everything is slow and that it is all worth it. Fine, have fun keep talking about the London-Toronto high speed rail (which I doubt we will see in 10 years) and those fantasy subway maps.

"If this were a dictatorship it would be a heck of a lot easier, as long as I'm the dictator." - George W. Bush

(it won't even be considered in China because politicians don't promise senseless subways to win votes)

They don't promise them, they just go ahead and build them: https://nextshark.com/caojiawan-subway-stop-china/

 

[TOareaFan]

(it won't even be considered in China because politicians don't promise senseless subways to win votes)

isn't that just another way of saying "Democracy is messy"

 

[Sandpit]

lol really? Quality of life in China is nowhere close to Canada.

It's getting pretty close in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Shenzhen. But of course there's the air pollution and the fact that it's not a free country.

 

[LNahid2000]

It's getting pretty close in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Shenzhen. But of course there's the air pollution and the fact that it's not a free country.

Not really. I was in both Shanghai and Guangzhou recently, and the disparity between the rich and poor was striking. Slums next to a mall with Chanel and other luxury stores.

 

[Sandpit]

Not really. I was in both Shanghai and Guangzhou recently, and the disparity between the rich and poor was striking. Slums next to a mall with Chanel and other luxury stores.

Thanks to the hukou system, people living in those slums might not be included in the population if they're from out-of-town.

 

[ksun]

lol really? Quality of life in China is nowhere close to Canada.

Why are you LOL? Is there anything funny? I said vastly improved compared with 20 years ago. It is almost night and day. It is the difference between "saving half a month's salary to buy a bike" to "buying cars with ease". In terms of transportation, it is a difference between spending 90 minutes in sweat and 20 minutes in the air conditioned subway to go to the same place.

Did the quality of life improve dramatically in Canada in the past 20 years? Or anything at all? Has it become easier to go from one place to another in Toronto since 1997? I know that in the US the average people are actually making less money if adjusted for inflation.

 

[ksun]

Thanks to the hukou system, people living in those slums might not be included in the population if they're from out-of-town.

Usually they are. Migrant workers need a temporary resident permit. The censuses include those people. For example, my hometown has 8.2M people with Hukou, but 7.2M actual residents. It is all official statistics.

Also those crappy apartments in the slums are very likely to be sold for $500,000-$1,000,000 in a couple of years when the government/developers decide to purchase. This is why so many Chinese can afford to buy beautiful homes in West Vancouver or Oakville, because they are almost a great deal.

 

[ksun]

The line opening in December will only be 1km shorter than the Spadina extension that opened in 1978. It is the 3rd longest single opening in TTC history, only surpassed by the Spadina Extension (9.5km) and the original Bloor line (12.5km).

Toronto only really built the subway network rapidly in the 1960's, when the massive Bloor line project occured. Everything else was rather piecemeal.

We are back on track for subway openings every 5 years or so for the next couple of decades at least.. Eglinton is 4 years after Spadina, Scarborough 5 years after Eglinton, DRL will likely be 4-5 years after Scarborough..

well, if you consider the one stop line "new subway opening", and IF the DRL actually materializes. Did you mean DRL will be ready in 13-14 years? How many stops will it have? Is it under construction already? Have we even decided it will be built at all? Because we know it takes Toronto 9 years to build 6 stops, so the math doesn't seem right. You are counting the chickens before they hatch and I admire your optimism.

I think Toronto was already a democracy in the 1960s, when massive projects could happen. Doesn't seem like our super slow speed of construction has anything to do with democracy, does it? In theory, our society should become more efficient and productive, not the other way around.

 

[innsertnamehere]

well, if you consider the one stop line "new subway opening"

yes, when it is 6km from another, especially so.

IF the DRL actually materializes. .

I certainly hope so.

How many stops will it have?

Eight, five new stations and three interchange stations.

Did you mean DRL will be ready in 13-14 years?

That is the current plan.

Is it under construction already?

no.

Have we even decided it will be built at all?

Province is spending over $200 million to design the thing. I think its chances are fairly good.

Because we know it takes Toronto 9 years to build 6 stops, so the math doesn't seem right.

2030 is 13 years away. 4 years to design it, 9 years to build. Seems reasonable.

You are counting the chickens before they hatch and I admire your optimism.

thanks I guess.

 

[BMO]

Sure, they don't have democracy and all sort of neighbourhood consultation and endless reports but I am sure it has done the general taxpayer a real good deed, saved a lot of money, and people's life has been vastly improved. Yes, we have democracy, which we pretend is the real reason everything is slow and that it is all worth it. Fine, have fun keep talking about the London-Toronto high speed rail (which I doubt we will see in 10 years) and those fantasy subway maps.

Honestly, the whole public engagement component of projects is more often than not just checking off a box and is widely open to subjective interpretation of comments. It also provides an avenue for skewed representation by certain interest groups that identify as representing the whole but more often than not represent only a small portion of the community. It's simply become a means of appeasing whoever is loudest and avoiding the perception of bias. Figures like "over 60% of respondents said they would ride their bike if a bike lane was present" really doesn't do anything but perpetuate a false narrative that isn't founded in statistics and has no basis in determining if 60% of a given area will really use their bike if a bike lane was available.

It's for this reason that there's been an active approach in Toronto to move towards pilot projects that can help provide some more definitive data toward supporting an alternative. Things like the Bloor Bike lanes results are hard to argue with. And I imagine the King Street Pilot results will be hard to argue with as well.

 

[LNahid2000]

Did the quality of life improve dramatically in Canada in the past 20 years? Or anything at all? Has it become easier to go from one place to another in Toronto since 1997? I know that in the US the average people are actually making less money if adjusted for inflation.

Quality of life in Canada is already better than almost anywhere else in the world. If you think China is so great, maybe you should move there.

 

[TransitBart]

Folks, this is getting a bit chippy. He said ‘vastly improved’. It has. I have also been in Guangzhou and Shanghai recently and for the average person there, life has significantly improved in the past 20 years. No so long ago, the goal of a 5-year plan was to make China self sufficient in rice.

All the being said, could I live in a place with no Google, no Youtube, no Twitter, no Facebook, no Whatsapp and no Instagram or want to? No. Canada is a very special and fortunate land.

 

[felix123]

Quality of life in Canada is already better than almost anywhere else in the world. If you think China is so great, maybe you should move there.

Try to separate the issues. One can have both a decent democracy and the resolve to actually build public infrastructure, including large-scale rapid transit systems, appropriate for population size. Compare Toronto not to Shanghai nor Singapore, but rather to Sydney/Melbourne, Stockholm, DC and Berlin, for example, which all have strong democratic public works policies, but also actually build transit.

As for the [if you don't like Canada, then get the hell out] style of patriotism in your comment, well maybe it's just me but I think that kind of rhetoric is really un-Canadian.