tripwire
Active Member
Yeah the PATH connection is a bit dubious to me, as Sugar Wharf relies on Pinnacle having it. I'm really hoping it does happen, but I wouldn't say it's 100% certain.
- Thread starter ChesterCopperpot
- Start date
ADRM
Senior Member
You should have added "for Toronto" after each example.
You really think 60 Colborne is a bold project? The Well has already been "Toronto-ized" where the design was changed. Lets wait till it's built. Would say the same for CIBC Square. Bold by Toronto standards but would need to wait till it is built to judge. This city does a good job of value engineering projects that end up not looking quite like the render.
Selby was supposed to be red, but ended up being a much tamer color.
Was hoping for something like this:
John Picken Photo/Flickr.com
But I know nothing like this would get built in Toronto. 561 Sherbourne? I won't even bother responding to that one.
Please spare me with the condemnation. It's not like I'm talking out of my ass about the blandness and "same-ness" of every project. The city has a love affair with grey, blue or green boxes!
https://business.financialpost.com/...is-also-running-out-of-commercial-real-estate
James MacDonald/Bloomberg
Do you see much color? The color and varying shapes come from buildings that were built decades ago.
Always hurt feelings when it isn't a giant love fest for every project especially if it's aA designed.
Also, not for nothing, but I'll take EY Tower over the one on the left and almost anything half decent "by Toronto standards" over the one on the right.
"Toronto has more bland buildings than city x/y/z" is a silly sentiment when x/y/z is literally *any* other city, because every single city in the world has more bland than beautiful contemporary architecture. There's bad filler in fully all of NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Vancouver, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Dubai, etc.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
I apologize for offending you. I should have known better that citing another city as a comparison (aesthetically) would incite some of the people here.
Now your turn. What does the crime in Chicago have to do with architecture?
The City requires the PATH connections to be built, in any new development where they have been designed in. They are part of the zoning bylaw amendments approved for the building. So, it'll all come together as the various phases are built, but this first section of Sugar Wharf will not be connected to the greater PATH system for years.
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TheKingEast
Senior Member
What are you talking about? Some cities are esthetically prettier than others. Toronto, isn't aeshtetically "pretty" IMO and apparently I'm not alone. No one is talking about filler. London's best takes a dump on Toronto's best and can probably say the same about the other cities you listed. It's not about the filler and moreso about the premier buildings and locations.
old boy
Senior Member
There are older residential and shopping areas of the city that are very attractive and interesting. The ravines and the islands are pleasing, and the entire waterfront downtown area is being transformed almost overnight. Why this constant dumping on Toronto ? I think most people posting on this site are well aware of the many deficiencies in the evolution of this place, but still value the potential that's just unfolding. Now, if we can just get the storm sewers to perform.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
Are you actually pleased with the "transformation" of the waterfront? I guess you are. I fear it's the same old, same old.
It's not about dumping on Toronto, and moreso about wanting the best for the city! If I hated the city I wouldn't be here. We had a great opportunity to rebuild the city and really make it something special. I think some ways we are doing a good job but in others we are not. Why not look at other cities (not just Chicago) as a reference and take the best parts of those cities to make our city better?
We have some great projects but IMO they are few and far between. And even then we are presented with a watered down version of the renderings.
So I look at this large project near the waterfront and get worried that it will just be another forgettable building. Just a missed opportunity. Happens too often. I wish this project wasn't so bloody boring.
old boy
Senior Member
Actually, like you I'm not too impressed with all I've seen thus far along the waterfront. We had a chance to have an opera house on the waterfront and perhaps an art gallery or museum. Instead what we are seeing is a wall of forgetable uniformity, albeit with a waterfront promenade - no small achievement. But it's better than what it replaced, and the lower Don estuary area can be special. I agree wholeheartedly that we should be picking the best examples from other cities, and maybe making our own examples for other cities in the process.
Corey TK
New Member
Speaking of colour, The Picasso is conveniently just out of frame on the right side... but regardless that's just one building
condovo
Senior Member
66 were shot last weekend, out of which 12 were killed. Chicago can teach us how to build a beautiful city. We can teach Chicago how to build a beautiful society. Both are important and we should find ways to learn from other, although I suspect that Toronto's not really on Chicago's radar.
(Caveat: Obviously we're not perfect in our strengths and neither are they.)
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mburrrrr
Senior Member
TheKingEast
Senior Member
Since some feel the crime rate is relevant when discussing architecture, isn't Toronto on pace for its most homicides in a single year? Our homicide rate is higher than New York! Maybe we're not as "great" as some of you think we are.
Northern Light
Superstar
What MOST feel here is that you absolutely are unrepentently dumping on Toronto, bashing Toronto and embellishing on Chicago's true successes while completely ignoring its shortcomings.
You are not showing balance; you're actually getting worse, and yes it's annoying, it's verging on trolling at this point.
You can prefer Chicago if you wish; you may absolutely show highlights of your trip, things you think they do well, and Toronto could do better.
Fair game.
But you're not stopping there.
Your praising things Chicago does badly, exaggerating Toronto's shortcomings and it is really obnoxious.
I have enjoyed many posts of yours over the years and have never seen fit to be critical of you like this, but your recent tirade really is intellectually offensive.
Let's take the recent nonsense post above.
Your going to include the van attack in the homicide count? That's technically correct, but that's like adding 9/11 to the New York city homicide count for the applicable year.
Completely misleading.
If you're looking at Toronto's homicide count over the last several years and comparing it with New York (never mind Chicago) it is much, much lower here. (in absolute and per capita terms)
Also New York is having a record low year for homicides (congrats to them)
But for you to overreach in order to bash the City yet again is unfathomable to me.
I've been to Chicago and had the privilege to travel much of the world. I have no issue w/saying Toronto's public realm could be better, or we mostly lack iconic 19thC and early 20thC architecture.
Both are completely fair statements.
But to go from there to an endless bash against Toronto, and a level of blind praise for Chicago that ignores its many deficiencies.........
Wow!
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TheKingEast
Senior Member
Less to do about bashing and more to do with people unable to take an objective look at their city from an aesthetics point of view.
"Endless bash" Errr what? If it walks like a dog, barks like a dog, then it's a dog. This city has an unhealthy fascination with grey and half-assing a lot of things. I gave examples, you and some others took it to heart. I never even mentioned crime.
My initial post was this:
"Just getting back from Chicago, we are really going about re-imagining this city the wrong way. We need to see better, bolder projects. Not the same old crap. Everything seems to be blue/green glass rectangle. We can't even change the shapes. Can't have stepbacks. Why can't we have a red or black tower? It's the same old shit. And you understand why sometimes the way people applaud this kind of stuff. Another forgettable project taking up important space."
This got you upset? Was I wrong? Majority of the new architecture here is bland. The public spaces are mediocre for the most part. Am I wrong? Yes, we have a few standouts. Why can't we have MORE of them? If this offends you then I'm sorry, might as well put me on ignore.
Getting back to this project, what exactly does it have going for it besides height? Explain to me how I'm wrong about this tower?
No color, no shapes, just same old same old. I don't expect every project to be unique but these guys don't even try and you have people fist pumping.
"Endless bash" Errr what? If it walks like a dog, barks like a dog, then it's a dog. This city has an unhealthy fascination with grey and half-assing a lot of things. I gave examples, you and some others took it to heart. I never even mentioned crime.
My initial post was this:
"Just getting back from Chicago, we are really going about re-imagining this city the wrong way. We need to see better, bolder projects. Not the same old crap. Everything seems to be blue/green glass rectangle. We can't even change the shapes. Can't have stepbacks. Why can't we have a red or black tower? It's the same old shit. And you understand why sometimes the way people applaud this kind of stuff. Another forgettable project taking up important space."
This got you upset? Was I wrong? Majority of the new architecture here is bland. The public spaces are mediocre for the most part. Am I wrong? Yes, we have a few standouts. Why can't we have MORE of them? If this offends you then I'm sorry, might as well put me on ignore.
Getting back to this project, what exactly does it have going for it besides height? Explain to me how I'm wrong about this tower?
No color, no shapes, just same old same old. I don't expect every project to be unique but these guys don't even try and you have people fist pumping.
kweku
Active Member
I totally agree. Lots of people on the forum who spent years criticizing AURA are mum on these pile of garbage on our waterfront.
These are going to be the Blandest and ugliest buildings that will be visible on Toronto's waterfront for over 100 years.
Let's not forget that until the Harbour Plaza Residences which turned out good in my opinion, Menkes was busy putting up bland glass slabs around Young and Sheppard.
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