The square tower on triangle podium does feel like a rather tepid form for this particular site. I agree with ProjectEnd that it works very well in the Distillery but maybe that's because the surrounding context is different enough... come to think of it the raised height of the QEW - the point from which the majority will view Ten York where the triangle counts most - further dilutes the impact of the podium, whereas the podium in the DD has more presence as it is viewed from the ground.
 
taal said:
Nope, they're still quite far behind in terms of the amount of office space in the core.
Click to expand...

Taal, do you remember about a week ago I suggested you look up the amount of office space in the core of Toronto (as you thought it was only 50M sq. ft.) and I said it's closer to 75-80M sq. ft. (assuming you go up to Bloor, Spadina, etc. as boundaries)? You finally agreed, however, in a separate thread, you again mentioned that Toronto's downtown only has 50M sq. ft. after our discussion. Not sure why? And now, regarding the point above, you don't seem to get the context here! We're not talking about the amount of office space in the above-mentioned post, but rather the number of office building skyscrapers (say 30 storeys or more). So, Calgary has not only caught up but will surpass Toronto in that! Google this and see how many office towers above 30 or 40 storeys each city has if you don't believe it!

And if were to speak of office space in the core, ironically, if we were to assume that Toronto's core only has 50M sq. ft. (like you thought upto last week and perhaps still do), then Calgary's core is very close to it, as it has over 40M sq. ft. of office space already in its core with much stronger potential for new construction than Toronto's core. Only if you accept the fact that Toronto's core has 75-80M sq. ft. of office space is the argument Calgary's core is smaller valid (in terms of office space). In terms of the number of highrise office towers, however, Calgary is still first (30 storeys or more) although Toronto's tallest are taller than Calgary's tallest.

Why are some forumers so defensive of their own city? I wish people were more objective....Toronto's office market is solid, no doubt about it, but Calgary truly does have the strongest overall office market in Canada (regardless of their higher volatility rates of vacancy) and especially considering its metro population! :)
 
^^ Perhaps you perceive forumers being defensive about Toronto because most of your posts demonstrate a persistent negativity about Toronto. While taal may have missed the context, all he (correctly) pointed out was that Toronto has more office space than Calgary. I don't see why you consider that defensive or unobjective. According to your numbers Toronto has twice as much office space in the core alone, even though Calgary's office space is heavily concentrated in the core (explaining similar number of +30 buildings) while Toronto has numerous business districts outside the core with substantial office space.

I used to live in Calgary, like the City, have relatives there, wish it the best, but its office market will always be boom/bust unless its economy becomes more diversified (or unless oil supply ends up in a persistent crisis state). Yes, right now it has the lowest vacancy but less than 2 years ago everyone was expecting huge vacancies. I wouldn't call a market "strong" or at least not "healthy" if there's so much difficulty predicting demand, and that entirely relates to the dominance of one industry in the market.

In any event, not sure what this has to do with Ten York. Should we be looking into how many 75 storey condo proposals there are in Calgary?
 
Ramako said:
I just find that the way a diamond takes up space within a triangle more visually pleasing. The angles seem so much less jarring. Don't you think so?

tenyork.jpg
Click to expand...

Except that the design isn't that simple at all. See my modification: (hope you don't mind)

YuiEe.jpg


See you'd have to shave those corners and reduce unit number (read: profit), and it wouldn't really look like a square anymore either. You could make up for it at the east part of the podium, but then you're essentially asking for a flatiron building and that was already (rightly) dismissed by the city on the grounds of sight lines and wind studies.
 
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Gee...according to Tridel, they already have thousands of names of people that want to buy into 10 York.

Tridel, Toronto’s biggest condo developer, is already fielding calls for the 783 units of Ten York and plans to start selling in April, more than a year before the C$295 million project begins construction.
“There’s a tremendous amount of interest,†said Jim Ritchie, senior vice president of sales and marketing for Tridel. “We have thousands of names of people who want to buy here.â€
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...pping-new-york-in-condo-market-mortgages.html
 
CITY_LOVER said:
Taal, do you remember about a week ago I suggested you look up the amount of office space in the core of Toronto (as you thought it was only 50M sq. ft.) and I said it's closer to 75-80M sq. ft. (assuming you go up to Bloor, Spadina, etc. as boundaries)? You finally agreed, however, in a separate thread, you again mentioned that Toronto's downtown only has 50M sq. ft. after our discussion. Not sure why? And now, regarding the point above, you don't seem to get the context here! We're not talking about the amount of office space in the above-mentioned post, but rather the number of office building skyscrapers (say 30 storeys or more). So, Calgary has not only caught up but will surpass Toronto in that! Google this and see how many office towers above 30 or 40 storeys each city has if you don't believe it!

And if were to speak of office space in the core, ironically, if we were to assume that Toronto's core only has 50M sq. ft. (like you thought upto last week and perhaps still do), then Calgary's core is very close to it, as it has over 40M sq. ft. of office space already in its core with much stronger potential for new construction than Toronto's core. Only if you accept the fact that Toronto's core has 75-80M sq. ft. of office space is the argument Calgary's core is smaller valid (in terms of office space). In terms of the number of highrise office towers, however, Calgary is still first (30 storeys or more) although Toronto's tallest are taller than Calgary's tallest.

Why are some forumers so defensive of their own city? I wish people were more objective....Toronto's office market is solid, no doubt about it, but Calgary truly does have the strongest overall office market in Canada (regardless of their higher volatility rates of vacancy) and especially considering its metro population! :)
Click to expand...



According to Colliers 2011 Q2 office space report, Downtown Toronto has 88.6 million square feet of office space -Calgary has 37 million - a distant third.

Plus there is 98 million square feet of suburban office space sround Toronto.

Office buildings thirty stories or taller downtown - Calgary 23, Toronto 28
total highrises - Calgary 348 - Toronto 2,164

How do you conclude Calgary has a stronger office market than Toronto? Toronto's absorption would cover what's under construction in calgary. Calgary's absorption won't handle what's currently under construction so how many more tar sands projects will it take to require more space?


officespace.png
 
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Because they do have a hotter office market :)

If you take a look at the YTD totals the picture gets even more skewed toward Calgary. Remember you need to factor in the existing amount of inventory. Calgary absorbing 1 million square feet of office space is much more significant that Toronto absorbing the same 1 million square feet of space, due to the big different in existing office space as you pointed out.

Toronto's suburbs are a beast all on their own, easily surpassing all the other cities in Canada and Toronto it self soon enough.

Prior to the last couple of years our suburbs absorb / construct a lot more space then the 416 proper does. That has shifted slightly back over the last 4 years or so but seems like it's either even out again or shift back to the suburbs (unless you hear many new office projects in the core / rest of the 416).

You need to be careful regarding what 'suburban office' space refers to above, in many cases it is the outer 416 + the 905. But just about significant portion of the absorption and all the construction you see (and will see) takes place in the 905. That's not necessarily the case for other cities in Canada. You can even see in the report above, the 905 is surpassing the 416 in terms of offices under construction (600,000 verse 1 million), this will continue for the next 3 or 4 years at the least. I say this because the only project under construction in Toronto (the entire 416) will not be completed 2014/15 or so (water park place). The suburbs are generally cracking out 2-5 buildings per year, they're much smaller though (in the 100,000-200,000 range).
 
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Irishmonk said:
The compulsion among Toronto developers (and associated architects) to place a square peg into any kind of non-square hole (be it round, ovular, triangular, rhomboid) is overwhelming and, apparently, incurable. Sometimes referred to as "Torboxitis.
Click to expand...

I don't think Ten York suffers too much from the 'box first, ask questions later' design approach that defaults to a box even when nothing about the site, location, construction methods, or intended use of the building and the suites indicate that box=best, let alone should be the starting point and ending point of design. The shaved off NW corner is hilarious because that's exactly what would happen if you shoved a square peg in a triangular hole. The triangular podium is probably hefty enough to create some flatirony (flatironic?) impressions from street level, and perhaps even from the Gardiner.

What hurts Ten York is the fugly podium. It's a hybrid of the beigey harlequin ichthyosis that ruins the Ryerson Business Building and a splatter of pastel vomit not unlike the Centro condo at STC, and it's a mess. A shame, because the point tower is quite lovely.
 
From street level up close that building is quite nice I thought. I Was there at the Christmas market last Christmas. Very nice in a wintery setting.
 
I too am/has never been a fan of that triangular boot and the way it interacts with the tower... something about it just seems off. i'm sure these things aren't noticeable at street level, but from afar (like in the render), that triangular boot just seems awkward and overpowered but since it's so flashy, it's distracting.

i think it would go better with me if both sides were slanted that followed the lines of symmetry with the triangle (not to the point of the east/west sides being triangular, just the north/south sides being fully slanted alongside the podium)
 
Meeting about Proposed Development at 120-130 Harbour Street

Date: Tuesday April 3, 2012
Time: open house 6:30pm, public meeting 7:00-9:00pm
Location: Pawsway, 245 Queens Quay West

Join Adam Vaughan and City Planning staff to hear about the plans for the proposed development by Tridel at 120-130 Harbour Street (also referred to as 10 York Street). The application is for a 75-storey condominium tower with retail at grade.
 
Calgary probably has the whitest collars in North America. It's not a fair comparison. Also, the main industry is cash rich and the amount of space allocated per employee is significantly higher than you will find with our financial services sector. I know a few in technology out there that complain about sharing offices while here they would be lucky to get enough work surface for their computer.
 
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