kkgg7 said:
We need more building like the Royal York Hotel that says history, culture and class, not Hong Kong style glass condos with no design whatsoever. 10 York probably won't be an exception.

Look at buildings along Chicago River and ours

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uploads/crops/2641_9_21_2005_3_14_11_pm_1_870_450_both_.jpg
http://www.umastewart.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/BuildingsLiningChicagoRiver.jpg
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bmiller said:
kkgg7 I agree absolutely. There is no class to any off the new construction, and there doesn't appear to be any on the horizon. Whatever happened to the waterfront planning committee? I thought your idea of the tree lined boulevard was part of their mandate.
Click to expand...

So, just to be clear, are you two advocating either
1) late 20th century PoMo with cornices, etc.,
or
2) early 20th century Canadian Railway Chateau-style buildings?

Is that what classy means to you? Please be very clear what you are asking for.
 
Ten York will fit in perfectly in the South Core as it busyness will draw your eyes away from ugliness of cement, and glass-fails. This isn't your parent's box, in the suburds it is a six sided semi-tall beast for Toronto. IMO I kinda like the top on the first draft... and the cleaner lines... but it's not that I'm a hater to the look of this what might be fintal draft. Let's hope that it gets the sales it needs so that construction can start on this project.
 
This design is not the final draft yet - it's still a work in progress.

42
 
I've been a member of this forum for years and I RARELY post anything...but I just have to say...GOSH, what a bunch of over-critical folks we have here....

99% of cities in North America would KILL for a proposal of this magnitude. I live in Dallas where downtown is still mostly a wasteland and the tallest building under construction right now is under 180m.

Other than the UT snobs here, the vast majority of the public that will be walking past or driving past this building will not be thinking "oh gosh, this totally ruined the postcard view from the islands..what a shame."

On a lighter note, I LOVE this forum and it's occasional dramatic moments.

Back to lurking....
 
TOFan said:
I've been a member of this forum for years and I RARELY post anything...but I just have to say...GOSH, what a bunch of over-critical folks we have here....

99% of cities in North America would KILL for a proposal of this magnitude. I live in Dallas where downtown is still mostly a wasteland and the tallest building under construction right now is under 180m.

Other than the UT snobs here, the vast majority of the public that will be walking past or driving past this building will not be thinking "oh gosh, this totally ruined the postcard view from the islands..what a shame."

On a lighter note, I LOVE this forum and it's occasional dramatic moments.

Back to lurking....
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I definitely agree with you.

To add, in my opinion, the only chance we have at great architecture is through the office buildings, not condos. Since we have VERY FEW office proposals, most of which are really short anyways, we likely won't get the iconic tower that people are expecting. Obvious exceptions to this rule include large, very high end projects. However, as we saw with the Trump being scaled back, we don't have enough demand for that. The thing that people have to realize is that our current boom is fuelled by regular people looking to take up residence in downtown, not billionaires looking for an ultra high end 10th home in the city... It's sad, but I'm fairly sure that Toronto will not get anything near as iconic as the Petronas, Taipei 101, etc. In fact, no North American city (aside from New York) has received anything that even comes close.
 
TOFan said:
I've been a member of this forum for years and I RARELY post anything...but I just have to say...GOSH, what a bunch of over-critical folks we have here....

99% of cities in North America would KILL for a proposal of this magnitude. I live in Dallas where downtown is still mostly a wasteland and the tallest building under construction right now is under 180m.

Other than the UT snobs here, the vast majority of the public that will be walking past or driving past this building will not be thinking "oh gosh, this totally ruined the postcard view from the islands..what a shame."

On a lighter note, I LOVE this forum and it's occasional dramatic moments.

Back to lurking....
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Nice post, TOFan! The overly dramatic, sky-is-falling posts on this board can be a little much sometimes.
 
TOFan said:
I've been a member of this forum for years and I RARELY post anything...but I just have to say...GOSH, what a bunch of over-critical folks we have here....

99% of cities in North America would KILL for a proposal of this magnitude. I live in Dallas where downtown is still mostly a wasteland and the tallest building under construction right now is under 180m.

Other than the UT snobs here, the vast majority of the public that will be walking past or driving past this building will not be thinking "oh gosh, this totally ruined the postcard view from the islands..what a shame."

On a lighter note, I LOVE this forum and it's occasional dramatic moments.

Back to lurking....
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. Many of the people who post here are astoundingly overcritical. They compare our everyday projects, built on a budget that ordinary people can afford, with the very best of the high-end projects being built in the rest of the world. Apparently, they would prefer that we were still in the mid 1990s to early 2000s doldrums, when no "hideous eyesores" were being built (nor was anything else).
 
TOFan said:
I've been a member of this forum for years and I RARELY post anything...but I just have to say...GOSH, what a bunch of over-critical folks we have here....

99% of cities in North America would KILL for a proposal of this magnitude. I live in Dallas where downtown is still mostly a wasteland and the tallest building under construction right now is under 180m.

Other than the UT snobs here, the vast majority of the public that will be walking past or driving past this building will not be thinking "oh gosh, this totally ruined the postcard view from the islands..what a shame."

On a lighter note, I LOVE this forum and it's occasional dramatic moments.

Back to lurking....
Click to expand...

:p I KNOW right??? I have said that many times... prepare for the scorn and indignation! You dared to speak up against the UT heirarchy!!! LOL

But that is sooo true..... They all think they should be the chefs, and their recipe is better... always.... :(
Facts are simple... for todays economics, and with modern design quality, and building techniques , these are better than average, and far from the eye sores that many worry they will be.....

Not that legit points aren't made.
You just have to sift through pages of self righteous opinions and over educated bloviates....... this is where architecture is!!!!
The alternative to 1 Bloor isn't Chrysler Buildings, or Rockerfeller Center,..... Sadly it is an empty lot!!!
Its this or nothing!!! You could see Aura and 1 Bloor built anywhere... Singapore, Melbourne, Hong Kong, and honestly, these designs are so much better than what is going on in the middle east, or even Miami, and Panama!!!!
But these insecure Torontonians love to feel less than, it is their credo!!!!!! :confused:
I see one city in NA, tackling the future and really going for an overhaul, as a way to survive..... This is a blood transfusion, for the urban core.... A response to decay and an evolution into the new model.... SO exciting!!!!!
Toronto is leaping on to the GLOBAL stage, and yet the locals don't see that emergence??? They see too tall in my backyard....??
You want the city to have $$$$$ for new infrastructure.... well, all these middle class tax dollars, filling the coffers, in the next 10 years will vastly increase the LOCAL TAX BASE!!!!!

What is the projected pop. increase of the downtown area, say from 2000, vs say 2015?? (Willing to bet, that by then we will have the 2nd or 3rd highest downtown core pop. in NA???? ) If we don't already?! LOL
 
jetsbackincanada said:
What is the projected pop. increase of the downtown area, say from 2000, vs say 2015?? (Willing to bet, that by then we will have the 2nd or 3rd highest downtown core pop. in NA???? ) If we don't already?! LOL
Click to expand...

As it happens, isaidso posted just a few hours ago at SSC, on this exact topic:

Downtown Toronto is about 5 times smaller than Manhattan geographically, but the density certainly is moving towards what exists in Manhattan. The population of downtown Toronto increased from 132,434 in 2006 to 175,064 in 2011. That's a 32.2% increase in just 5 years.

By my calculations, downtown Toronto would need a population of 320,000 to equal Manhattan density. We'll likely be up to 230,000 by 2016 so maybe by 2021 it will be comparable. Consider the following:

Manhattan
Land Area: 22.96 sq mi
Population (2010): 1,585,873
Density: 70,951/sq mi

Downtown Toronto
Land Area: 4.5 sq mi
Population (2011): 175,064
Density: 38,903/sq mi
Click to expand...

It seems that downtown Toronto is almost twice as dense as downtown Chicago while Manhattan is almost twice as dense as downtown Toronto.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I wasn't comparing Ten York to office buildings and I wasn't comparing it to internationally recognized icons like the Petronas Towers. All I was comparing it to was its own original design. I think that the previous design was better, and I specifically laid out my reasons for thinking so. If we're not allowed to make such critiques, then what the hell is the point of this forum anyway?
 
I'm sure the architects and builders of these projects don't give a rats ass what i or anybody else on this forum think. They will build what the city allows, and what people buy. Not everyone is going to agree they are great buildings. Settling for second best is sometimes better than nothing, but continually lowering standards and accepting inferior projects results in, well inferior projects. Ten York is much better than a parking lot, but not as good as it might have been. Hopefully 50 Bloor west will up the anti.
 
Ramako said:
I wasn't comparing Ten York to office buildings and I wasn't comparing it to internationally recognized icons like the Petronas Towers. All I was comparing it to was its own original design. I think that the previous design was better, and I specifically laid out my reasons for thinking so. If we're not allowed to make such critiques, then what the hell is the point of this forum anyway?
Click to expand...

Nobody said you're not allowed to make critiques. It's just that the constant whining in just about every thread gets tiresome.

If we're not allowed to critique your critique, then what's the point of this forum anyway? :D
 
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