[Glen]

That's not what you were addressing. You're blaming congestion in North York on a condo boom in an area that was slated to receive a few more office towers. The flaws in this reasoning include assuming there was no congestion before amalgamation, neglecting the tremendous growth of areas beyond North York, and the fact that pre-existing transit will not prevent congestion, just help relieve it.

I guess you were referring to my point (which was secondary) that "Now the area is one of the most heavily congested the city." I will clarify, being predominantly residential traffic flows are heavily lopsided. Morning outbound, evening inbound. Such unevenness magnifies congestion.

I don't think you realize how much residential development in NYCC pre-dates or was built at the same time as the late-80s/early-90s office boom. You're also underestimating how much traffic would be generated by additional office towers, especially if they have large retail components, even though they'd be right at subway stations. One problem is that the suburban centres like NYCC were only connected by transit to downtown, and not to each other, the rest of suburban 416, or the 905.

From an Oct 2007 thread.......

Built since 1995

1. 63-83 Drewry/Fairchild
2. PArk Place
3. Finch / Pemberton
4. Finch / Pemberton
5. The Paramount
6. Fince / Kenneth Drive
7. 15-27 Lorraine
8. Northtown
10. 5412-5422 Yonge, 15 Hosham
11. Northtown Phase C
12. Dominion Store
13. Empress Plaza
14. Empress Plaza
15. Empress Plaza
16. Hillcrest/Doris/Elmwood
17. 77-95 Spring Garden, 153 Doris
18. 15-19 Finch/Lorraine
19. 5575 Yonge, 11,15-25 Finch East
20. 16-30 Byng
21. Northtown
22. 880 Grandview
23. 12. McKee, 330 Doris, 21 Church
24. 18 Parkview
25. 17-25 Hillcrest, 18-22 Elmwood
26. 5000 Yonge
27. 43 Sheppard East
28. Yonge and Avondale
29. 40-62 Byng, 35 Holmes
30. Northtown way
38. Northtown Phase A
39. Northtown Phase B
40. 24-44 Horsham, 29-39, 45 Hounslow
41. 70-102 Ellerslie
42. Yonge/Norton Centre I
43. Yonge/Norton Centre II
44. Parkview/Doris/Kingsdale
45. 20-32 Empress, 14,15,21 Kingsdale
46. 69,70 Ellerslie
47. 76 Spring Garden
48. Sheppard East/Clartrell
49. The Empire, 28-38 Kenaston Gardens
50. The Chelsea, 19 Barberry
51. Amica at Bayview, 15 Barberry
52. St. Gabriele's church
53. NY Towers 1
54. NY Towers 2
55. NY Towers 3
56. NY Towers 4
57. NY Towers 5
58. Canadian Tire Store
59. 53 Cummer
60. Menkes, Bales
61. Loblaws, Bayview Village
62. 2831 Bayview
63. 50 Spring Garden
64. The Rockerfeller, 12-26 Kenastron Gardens
65. 55-61 Drewry
66. 426-442 Kenneth
67. 1 & 19 Avondale
68. 5176 Yonge
69 33 Drewry

Under Construction
1. 4917-4995 Yonge, 8-18 Spring Garden
2. 5566 Yonge
3. 170 Sheppard East
4. Finch/Lorraine/Blakley
5. 8,10 & 12 Clairtrell
6. 12,14,16 Rean, The Claridges
7. 1019 Sheppard Ave E, Canadian Tire
8. Fince/Duplex/Greenview
9. 19-27 Churchill
10. Northtown (Phase 2)

Approved
1. 43 Drewry
2. 5270&5290 Yonge
3. 5200 Yonge
4. 4800 Yonge
5. N/W Yonge/Poyntz
6. 120 Sheppard Ave E
7. 4804-4812 Yonge/20 Sheppard Ave W
8. Dangreen/Orlando/Bayview/Sheppard
9. The Chelsea, 19 Barberry
10. Mini Skools, 685 Sheppard
11. Post Office, 699 Sheppard
12. Canadian Tire Site
13. Fairview Mall
14. 1200 Sheppard Ave E
15. 5795 Yonge
16. 9&11 Clairtrell
17. Parkview Forrest
18. 2924-2929 Bayview
19. 25 Canterbury
20. 650-672 Sheppard Ave E
21. 603 Sheppard Ave E
22. Buchan Court

Proposed
1. Gibson Square
2. Fairview Mall
3. Oakburn Apartments
4. 55-65 Ellerslie
5. Willowdale Plaza
6. 5350 Yonge
7. 9 McKee
8. 43 Sheppard East
9. 16-22 Clairtrell
10. 19-37 Olive & 18-31 Holmes

The article notes that in the last 9 years 20,264 units have been approved and of those 16,000 have been built or are under construction in NYCC, also 312,748 sq.m. of non-res GFA has been added to North York.

Note the low amount on non residential.

 

[Second_in_pie]

That is all beside the point I was addressing. Which was blaming the decentralization of employment areas on the lack of public transit. I pointed out that NYCC went from having the majority of new development being commercial to the opposite. Despite the pre existence of the subway. In fact while all these employment areas were developed outside of Toronto, none were developed anywhere along the existing subway lines in the city.

I think that the decentralization of employment areas is and will be paramount for the city to survive. Without it, we'd be getting a full >1 million people coming into the CBD in the span of about two hours.

If and when those suburban employment areas would densify (NYC, MTC, RHC, VCC, STC, ECC, MCC,) then it'll be much easier to serve them by transit. But even currently, they're actually doing a lot to help with congestion.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I guess you were referring to my point (which was secondary) that "Now the area is one of the most heavily congested the city." I will clarify, being predominantly residential traffic flows are heavily lopsided. Morning outbound, evening inbound. Such unevenness magnifies congestion.

Secondary? This is a thread about traffic! Everyone else here is talking about traffic, as was Hipster Duck in the post you quoted. If you wanted to address something else, you have to actually post it (but don't do it in a thread about traffic). There's about 30,000 jobs in NYCC that weren't there when the subway was extended, which negates everything else you're trying to say.

No, it really doesn't magnify congestion...congestion is worse when roads are clogged in every direction. When huge volumes of people are going from one area to another at the same time, lights can be synched, transit can be built, highways can be effective, etc. If NYCC had added tens of thousands of jobs in the past decade instead of all those people, traffic on Yonge would not be any better today.

You're not recognizing the relatively small percentage of traffic along Yonge that is actually caused by condos compared to that caused by house dwellers and the entirety of the northern 416 and York Region. Condos are to be blamed for the problematic left turn from Avondale to Yonge, but not much else. All those people would be living where there wasn't a subway station next door and they would be mostly driving. The solution is to improve transit, not to make our already dense areas ridiculously overcrowded, or expand them at the expense of neighbourhoods.

The article notes that in the last 9 years 20,264 units have been approved and of those 16,000 have been built or are under construction in NYCC, also 312,748 sq.m. of non-res GFA has been added to North York. Note the low amount on non residential.

Uh, no one has said that many condos weren't built in the past decade...why not read other posts before pointlessly reposting that list? Much of that list refers to sites that aren't even in NYCC. Most of the office towers along Yonge were built in a very brief flurry in the late 80s and early 90s - before 1985 or so, NYCC was almost entirely residential, and thousands of residential units were also built in the same brief period as the offices. You've completely failed to prove that the 30,000 or so new jobs added to NYCC after the subway was extended is unsuccessful in any way. If 50,000 were added, you'd be complaining that it wasn't 80,000. If you're looking for a failure, NYCC isn't it...try looking towards STC.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I don't think you realize how much residential development in NYCC pre-dates or was built at the same time as the late-80s/early-90s office boom. You're also underestimating how much traffic would be generated by additional office towers, especially if they have large retail components, even though they'd be right at subway stations. One problem is that the suburban centres like NYCC were only connected by transit to downtown, and not to each other, the rest of suburban 416, or the 905.

This is a very important point.

You can connect an area with RT, maybe even subway, but you can't expect everyone to use it. There are plenty of people that live and work in the suburbs that aren't served by proper transit at all. For instance, what happens if someone living in NYCC works near STC or around the Airport? There's really no good connection they have to those areas that would in any way be competitive with a car. The entire Go system feeds into Toronto's Downtown, yet all the other major employment areas are served by a single Go line or subway at best!

Consumers is just at the edge of the picture, but it's only connected from one side, to the west with North York. It's still lacking a proper Eastern Connection, as well as an eventually-needed N-S connection. Beaver Creek area (which will continuing to evolve with new development,) is currently only served by Viva BRT, which is barely something to talk about. It's stranded on either side of the BRT anyways, with another BRT connection as well as a commuter-only rail line in the west and east. MTC is served by a commuter-only Go train which goes in opposite direction of the majority of the GTA. STC is only served by a needless modal transfer to the Southwest, with absolutely no connections to the North, West or East.

The list goes on, and it presents a problem; if you work outside of downtown, what are the chances you can easily get to your place of work with transit? What if you live in North York and work in STC? God help you if you live Downtown and work at 404/407. A good transit network will realize all these connections and trips and will adapt to that, instead of trying to funnel everyone downtown and nothing else.

 

[benii]

they should build another horizontal subway route along the 401.