[pman]

No. Expansion has been deferred until necessary.

The number of aircraft movements are Pearson hasn't been increasing very quickly (about 1.5% per year) as aircraft are getting larger and YTZ is taking a fair amount of traffic for the city.

Also, the 2008 recession had not occured when the last master plan was published ( http://www.torontopearson.com/en/gtaa/master-plan/ )


Pier G construction boils down to when Air Canada starts expanding again, unless American Airlines suddenly joins Star Alliance (plans are to pull US Airways out of Star Alliance) and wants their operations moved to Terminal 1.

I wonder if Pier G would be built sooner if the federal government stopped protecting Mapleflot from foreign airlines. For example, Emirates tried to get federal approval to increase Toronto-Dubai service but in the best Canadian tradition of screwing consumers to protect a crap domestic company they were turned down.

 

[yyzhyd]

I wonder if Pier G would be built sooner if the federal government stopped protecting Mapleflot from foreign airlines. For example, Emirates tried to get federal approval to increase Toronto-Dubai service but in the best Canadian tradition of screwing consumers to protect a crap domestic company they were turned down.

Let's be clear... EK & EY are only looking to siphon off South Asia traffic ex-YYZ. The number of pax actually flying to DXB (not including stopovers) on those flights is less than 10%.
Also please understand that the revenue from lucrative international routes by AC subsidize the continued operation of many unprofitable domestic routes.
There is a lot more that I could write on this but the above is the quick and dirty.

 

[rbt]

For example, Emirates tried to get federal approval to increase Toronto-Dubai service but in the best Canadian tradition of screwing consumers to protect a crap domestic company they were turned down.

Emirates wanted permission to fly into Canadian airspace without granting Canadian airlines the ability to fly into their airspace.

Reciprical agreements are how the system works.

It's not fair to demand to be able to compete is someone elses market and keep them shut out of their own. Also worth noting that Westjet was one of the biggest complainers. Emirates wanted to handle Canada to US traffic too.

 

[ShonTron]

Interestingly, they've gone and built a temporary pier where Pier G is slated to be. The pier serves small jets and turboprops serving US destinations.

This is the only photo I've managed to find of it:

It's cramped and not very nice.

Looks even worse than the satellite terminal I flew out of to BWI a few years back. The only upside is at least the airside shuttle is gone.

 

[ssiguy2]

Since this is strickly a business and tourist line can someone tell me........why the hell is there a stop at Weston?

 

[gweed123]

Since this is strickly a business and tourist line can someone tell me........why the hell is there a stop at Weston?

I can think of 2 reasons:

1) It was put there as a way to placate upset residents that the ARL would be putting more trains onto the Georgetown corridor, or;

2) It was put there out of spite so that trains can spew their diesel fumes for a longer period of time in the neighbourhood, because they'll be stopping there instead of just passing through.

Either way, I agree, the stop is pretty pointless.

 

[TOareaFan]

Since this is strickly a business and tourist line can someone tell me........why the hell is there a stop at Weston?

It was to get over the second obstacle the Weston residents put in place. After their first complaint (the 3 "dead end roads" cutting their community in half) was dealt with they came up with the complaint that they were taking the brunt of the rail expansion for a service that did not even serve their community.....so they got their stop and the moved on to stage 3..."they should not be diesel".

 

[nfitz]

It was to get over the second obstacle the Weston residents put in place. After their first complaint (the 3 "dead end roads" cutting their community in half) was dealt with they came up with the complaint that they were taking the brunt of the rail expansion for a service that did not even serve their community.....so they got their stop and the moved on to stage 3..."they should not be diesel".

My guess is what will happen, is that they'll use extremely low ridership as an excuse to only stop a few trains in Weston, and when the Eglinton Crosstown is near opening, they will decide it makes more sense to put a station on Eglinton instead.

 

[k10ery]

Emirates wanted permission to fly into Canadian airspace without granting Canadian airlines the ability to fly into their airspace.

Reciprical agreements are how the system works.

It's not fair to demand to be able to compete is someone elses market and keep them shut out of their own. Also worth noting that Westjet was one of the biggest complainers. Emirates wanted to handle Canada to US traffic too.

Since Open Skies would be good for Canadian travellers, I see no reason to wait for reciprocal agreements to get those benefits. Just open up the industry and get better prices and better service right now.

Andrew Coyne made the general point more elegantly this week.

 

[yyzhyd]

Emirates wanted permission to fly into Canadian airspace without granting Canadian airlines the ability to fly into their airspace.

Reciprical agreements are how the system works.

It's not fair to demand to be able to compete is someone elses market and keep them shut out of their own. Also worth noting that Westjet was one of the biggest complainers. Emirates wanted to handle Canada to US traffic too.

That too is inaccurate, the airspace issue was due to the fact that they wanted unlimited access to Canada and wanted to establish an A380 hub at YYZ. Effectively capacity dumping. Canada rightfully said get-lost and they retaliated by imposing visas, kicking the Cdn. military out of UAE, denying overflight by Defence Minister MacKay's plane.

A little history lesson...
EK could have had 6x weekly to start back in 2002 when the original Canada-UAE Bilateral was signed, but tried to bully the CTA into giving daily rights to YYZ. CTA said why don't you start serving YYZ and we can see about an increase later.
The EK North America Region manager refused and said we'll do daily or nothing... so the CTA said that's your choice.
EY came in and took 3 of those 6 frequencies in 2003. When all this broke among the EK executives the regional manager was promptly fired.
EK decided it better start service with the remaining 3 frequencies or else risk being shut out completely from Canada.

EK needs Canada far more than Canada needs EK... therefore the CTA is in a position to play hardball. EK's temper tantrums are not helping it's cause.

Eventually EK and EY will get reasonable access which may not be exactly what they want... could be something like 28x weekly to Canada:
EK
YYZ - 2x daily
YVR - 1x daily

EY
YYZ - 1x daily

But this will not happen by trying to bully Canada into it.

As a counterpoint... Turkish Airlines was given 3x weekly to start, after one year it was increased to 4x weekly and now in it's third year has further been increased to 5x weekly and expect that by 2014 they will be daily into YYZ.
Canada's policy is to start with 3x weekly and allow the market to grow then grant additional rights.


I am very much looking forward to using the Union Pearson Express service many times a month for my business trips.

 

[HotStuff]

Does anyone know if the pier g will be built. And when. I know that when u look at an aerial view of Toronto Pearson you only see to piers sticking outward. In the proposal their was supposed to be three. One big one in the middle and smaller ones on both sides.

 

[junctionist]

Since this is strickly a business and tourist line can someone tell me........why the hell is there a stop at Weston?

Where did you get that impression? This line is the only rail link to the airport we'll have. Providing a stop in Weston makes the service significantly more accessible to hundreds of thousands of people. Making it an expensive line mainly accessible to business people and tourists is a waste of tax money.

 

[EnviroTO]

Where did you get that impression? This line is the only rail link to the airport we'll have. Providing a stop in Weston makes the service significantly more accessible to hundreds of thousands of people. Making it an expensive line mainly accessible to business people and tourists is a waste of tax money.

Do hundreds of thousands of people live in Weston that head out on flights regularly that would rather than take UP Express for an additional $8 per head to save 18 minutes? Weston strikes me as a place where the jet set are likely not living in large numbers. Being one of the few places with a direct TTC route to the airport terminals I would think even less people would use UP Express there as opposed to a station at Eglinton which is further from the airport and currently does not have a direct surface route to the airport. I would also think that per head pricing would not go over as well in Weston as opposed to downtown since a larger portion of people in Weston would fly with family instead of as individuals. Once a whole family is flying isn't it more convenient to have a car pick you up from the house to go to the airport since really the airport is a short trip down Dixon Road? If the airport station was on the normal GO route and basically the Georgetown corridor was diverted through the airport or the Airport People Mover came to the rail corridor then obviously a stop in Weston makes sense. A limited stop airport express at a higher price point than normal commuter rail doesn't seem as sensible to me.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Interestingly, they've gone and built a temporary pier where Pier G is slated to be. The pier serves small jets and turboprops serving US destinations.

This is the only photo I've managed to find of it:

It's cramped and not very nice.

I flew out of there last year on my way to Vegas. It's a hell of a long walk on it's own but sure is closer than the old T2 satellite which IIRC is where these type of commuter gates would otherwise be.

 

[nfitz]

Do hundreds of thousands of people live in Weston that head out on flights regularly that would rather than take UP Express for an additional $8 per head to save 18 minutes?

Wow, I hadn't realised just how convenient the number 58 bus was for those in Weston. 24 minutes from T1 to Weston station, right down Dixon. Not sure why anyone would be taking the express train, as it would require more walking for most people than the bus down Lawrence.

$8 extra? I'd be surprised if it only costs $11 to go from Weston to Pearson. The current basic GO fare from Union or Dundas West (Bloor) to Pearson is $5.90 and from Weston to Pearson is $4.50. If we are looking at about $25 from Union to Pearson on the express train, I'd think the fare from Weston would be about $20.

I'd expect there are more people travelling from Weston to downtown for $20 than there are to Pearson ... but even then it's only $4.65 on GO for the 20-minute trip. Once full-day service is running on this line, why pay $$$ for the airport express?

Perhaps the most likely users are those taking the Kitchener line from Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown, and Brampton, who would get off at Weston and change to the Airport Express. Though I don't really think this was on the radar of those in Weston ... and these could almost as easily be served by moving the station to Eglinton (or better served, by moving the stop from Weston to Etobicoke North, 5 minutes closer to the airport).