[cacruden]

It could - I've paid almost $100 for airport parking for a couple of weeks, because it was still cheaper, and more convenient, than two $50 taxis, especially when landing around midnight. When the car is full of luggage, the BD subway and Airport Express bus aren't that attractive.

Bigger issue is getting my stuff to Union station - though when the more frequent electrified Lakeshore line starts running that will help that issue.

I think the real answer here is that there needs to be 2 services. An airport express AND a local service - each running every 20 minutes or so. Ultimately electrified, but if they can start the initial airport service quickly with refurbished diesel equipment, and then proceed to complete the electrification, local service, and purchase newer equipment later on, why not?

I use taxi's about half the time, and Airport Express half the time. For me Blue22 would be more predictable - i.e. I am pretty much guaranteed to know how long it will take to get there.

I would prefer the Blue22 Union Station to have an airport code so that check-in can be done at Union Station. Then all I have to do is hop on the train and go through security.

It would also be nice to have them build the Eglinton Subway which would terminate at the Airport - but by then I expect a zone based system to be implemented as well (Airport would have it's own zone - which should offset building the subway all the way to the airport).

 

[CGM]

I don't find the airporter to be convenient in the slightest. It is slow and unfriendly.

I've used the service a few times and I would disagree with you. For the downtown tourist/business traveller... what is more conveniet, pickup on your doorstep or hauling your luggages to Union Station?

If public transit solutions were part of the plan from the beginning then Bluee 22 would be far less of a concern.

The 192 bus from Kipling subway station is a direct bus to all three terminals

I see no reason why the regular TTC subway can't be extended the less than 12 km from Kipling Stn to the airport. This would NOT be an extra fare zone

I like this idea ... but you'll have to remember that the extra route would mean longer bounce back time from last station.... so more cars and operators would be needed and that would raise fairs for everybody.

I use taxi's about half the time, and Airport Express half the time. For me Blue22 would be more predictable - i.e. I am pretty much guaranteed to know how long it will take to get there.

People just need to leave a bit early anticipating traffic... we've been doing it for decades and it's never been a problem for me... and I've travelled a bit.
This investment will serve the city much better if it goes into our roads and TTC.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I have to wonder, with the railpath (bike path) and the passenger traffic (VIA and GO) and freight traffic and now Blue 22, will there be space for a Downtown Relief Line down the same corridor? Will the Blue 22 be separate from the passenger traffic, or will the passenger rails be upgraded for all 3 services to use?

 

[cacruden]

This investment will serve the city much better if it goes into our roads and TTC.

The Blue22 is a private venture.... so are you saying we should have private (toll) roads as well....

 

[ShonTron]

Private venture supported by public subsidies and piggybacking on a publicly financed rail expansion.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Cleveland's CTS constructed the first North American Airport rail link!

Carrefour: CTS in 1968-That's right-40 years ago-opened their (now RTA Red Line) extension to Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport.
This was the first rail rapid transit line to directly serve a North American airport.
Washington National Airport was served by Metro's Blue Line beginning in 1977.
Philadelphia International Airport is served by a SEPTA Regional Rail(commuter)
rail) line that began service in 1985.
Baltimore,St.Louis,Minneapolis and Portland's rail transit links began service all in recent years-mid 90s to date and all are LRT services.
Chicago opened rail rapid transit extensions to O'Hare Airport in 1984 and Midway Airport in the mid 90s.

I will mention NYC and Toronto-There is now Airtrain service to JFK and Newark Airports - by way of transfers from other rail lines. This can be a problem for those transporting large amounts of luggage.
As for LaGuardia-an extension of the N rapid transit line from Astoria,Queens was proposed-and then fell victim to NIMBY opposition among other things.
Toronto Pearson International can use a decent Downtown rail link-with access to other rail transit. YYZ will benefit well from it. LI MIKE

 

[Justin10000]

Private venture supported by public subsidies and piggybacking on a publicly financed rail expansion.

Yes!! My tax dollars are going to a CEO's new Beemer!!

Such a waste.

 

[gei]

This service will enhance downtown as a business and tourist location. It will enhance Union's importance as a transit hub. It will reduce the advantage of the island airport. I don't think it precludes better local transit options for getting to the airport in the future. I think it would be a good thing.

Considering tourists are usually in groups of 3+, it would be foolish of them (financially) to take this thing.

 

[Dichotomy]

Is Union Station the center of the Universe though? It would serve many of the tourists and downtowners, but what about the rest of the city?
I've driven to Pearson and paid for a week's parking and I've taken the subway/bus from Kipling and during the day (and for $2.75): the TTC is the Better Way (for a change.) It is faster and far cheaper. Not a lot of fun with luggage and thinly dressed for a winter cold/southern heat climate change transition, but the inconvenience is greatly outweighed by the price/time factor. Who wants to pay $50 for a cab and sit in traffic, fretting about making the flight in time?
Once when we returned from a trip at midnight and in a blizzard we opted for a taxi, but that was knowing there'd be no traffic anyway.
I've taken the subway from O'Hara as well and although it is about the same speed as a cab, the advantage is that subway line serves the city as well.
I guess it is kind of embarassing that there is no rail link to the airport when lesser cities have them, but I'm not sure if a business model exists to support it.

 

[cacruden]

Considering tourists are usually in groups of 3+, it would be foolish of them (financially) to take this thing.

Usually in groups of 3+. I know that people sometimes travel in "packs" .... But I personally know very very few people that have traveled by plane - in groups of more than 2 (except for a friend of mine that flew back from Singapore with his family to meet their grandparents).

 

[Whoaccio]

Blue22 is a bit of a puzzle for me to figure out. I have a lot of concerns about it, but also understand it has to fit a certain niche. I will divide my concerns and attractions to the project.

Concerns:

What is the government subsidy on this? I have nothing against P3s, but I feel this is being treated more as a private venture solely for the benefit of a company. I am actually even okay with that, but SNC shouldn't be getting a subsidy in that case.

RDCs?! Sometimes I lay awake at night wondering who Toronto will try to compete with next, Lagos or Johannesburg? (Ohh wait, Johannesburg is already building a couple brand spanking new rail lines for it's airport, there goes that dream *sigh*). Are EMU's too 1970s for Toronto?

Why is this not occurring within a larger regional planning context? I would willingly wait for Metrolinx's RTP to come out rather than getting something half baked.

Will this affect the overall capacity of the Weston line? There is no way this should take priority over GO expansions, a DRL or just about any other bona fide mass transit projects.

Attractions:

An Eglinton Subway (much less the TC proposal) will have no attraction to anybody. Seriously, nobody will use it. Students and a few poor people, maybe. How many poor people fly in the first place though? The majority of air travel is done either by single professional travelers or families. In Toronto, no family is going to take any kind of air/rail link from anywhere to the airport in mass numbers. Better to focus where you have a chance.

20-30$ isn't that much. Once again, individual business travelers will most likely be the main stay of any air/rail link. The target price is reasonable compared to taking a cab from king/bay.

 

[Le Gique]

Why is this not occurring within a larger regional planning context? I would willingly wait for Metrolinx's RTP to come out rather than getting something half baked.

that's the big question -- it seems that the Ontario government somehow feels obliged to negotiate with the winning "bidder" of an opaque RFP put out by the feds years ago

not sure why

MOE seems to be portrayed as a lead on this, presumably cuz of the outstanding EA process -- but MOE doesn't make infrastructure deals -- IIRC that would be Infrastructure Ontario and the Ministry of Everything with guidance from the premier's office

it's likely that provincial transport planners are aware of the negotiations in some way -- just not in a public way.

-it sounds like any deal would be announced BEFORE the Metrolinx plan comes out in the fall, and would then constitute another legacy project that the RTP has to plan around

so we don't get to discuss the regional or corridor impacts in an open fashion

but then, there is no guarantee a deal will be reached, either...

 

[Dilla]

RE: Extending Subway from Kipling

I like this idea ... but you'll have to remember that the extra route would mean longer bounce back time from last station.... so more cars and operators would be needed and that would raise fairs for everybody.

Could we not have a loop through the airport? so trains wouldn't have to "bounce" at all? I believe i remember Heathrow doing this.

At any rate, this would be the idea i would favour.

 

[TOinTO]

RE: Extending Subway from Kipling

Could we not have a loop through the airport? so trains wouldn't have to "bounce" at all? I believe i remember Heathrow doing this.

At any rate, this would be the idea i would favour.

And how does the BILLIONS that would cost compare with the Blue-22 proposal?

This proposal is for a modest investment to get an entry-level train service going to the airport from downtown using standard rail infrastructure and what are, admittedly, probably substandard trains. (But that could be easily changed if the service is successful).

Why do people (on this board and living in Weston) see this as an opportunity to advance their favourite fantasy transit project? Do you forget that you live in a region that has done pretty much NOTHING to improve transit in the 5 years that this proposal has sat on the table? Have you not heard that the City has written off subways as too expensive?

I think this proposal reflects a realist assessment of our willingness to invest in transit that many people don't want to accept.

 

[Whoaccio]

I think this proposal reflects a realist assessment of our willingness to invest in transit that many people don't want to accept.

That is chillingly true. If we can't even find to find the money to build a subway on overcrowded downtown routes and the unfinished Sheppard line, some of the alternatives being floated seem overly optimistic.