I think by the 'Clewes Brigade' they mean anyone who isn't a contrarian like them. In other words, people who are in sync with the contemporary cultural scene in Toronto as expressed through the architects who win professional and critical acclaim from their peers for their work.

In other words, people who are neither ( choose one or more: ) clueless about the city they live in and it's design history, nor faux wraiths, nor the "quality finishes uber alles" brigade ... like them.
 
This pair of quotes go well together like fava beans and a nice chianti:

interchange42 said:
PS - The 'Clewes Brigrade'? So the way to win your argument here is to lump all those of opposing views into one neatly summed up package of rabid fan boys? Your demeaning manner and dismissive attitude is unbecoming.
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Urban Shocker said:
I think by the 'Clewes Brigade' they mean anyone who isn't a contrarian like them. In other words, people who are in sync with the contemporary cultural scene in Toronto as expressed through the architects who win professional and critical acclaim from their peers for their work.

In other words, people who are neither ( choose one or more: ) clueless about the city they live in and it's design history, nor faux wraiths, nor the "quality finishes uber alles" brigade ... like them.
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How hard is it to realize the significance of Yonge Street to Toronto's history. That's why we should have something special here. Instead we have another condo. Meanwhile the City is launching a design competition for the foot of Jarvis. How ludicrous.
 
Edward said:
How hard is it to realize the significance of Yonge Street to Toronto's history. That's why we should have something special here. Instead we have another condo. Meanwhile the City is launching a design competition for the foot of Jarvis. How ludicrous.
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Assume it is hard. Explain that significance.

Do you refer to William Lyon MacKenzie and all that? I agree that should be honoured, but it seems odd to do it at Yonge and Queens Quay, miles away from where it happened, and which did not even exist as a place when it did. Should we have a monument to teenagers cruising up and down Yonge in dad's car on a Saturday night? The memorial to great massage parlours/convenice stores/head shops we have known? A colossal statue of Yonge, whoever the hell he was and whatever the hell he did. A marker of the essential, ineffible, remarkable streetiness of Yonge Street? A giant arch like the Gateway to India, only this one could say "Where The Landfill Meets The Lake*?









*for the time being.
 
What would be the point of carving the lot into dozens of lots and several blocks and developed using a variety of designs and styles? Why should it have a mixture of many different kinds of uses, including residential, retail, entertainment, restaurant and any other use that develops "organically" whatever that means? What is so "imaginative" about that? Why is an institutional use "obviously" the "most" appropriate for this site? Why is the site "perfect" for "anything" tourist-oriented?
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An institutional use can draw people from all over the city and outside. That's why it's obviously the best use for such a prominent site. Carving the lot and making it mixed use and diverse is a lot more imaginative than building yet another condo project on a superblock sitting amidst grass just like the hundreds of other similar projects that are planned or being built as we speak.

Are you advocating that a major institution try to seize the land through expropriation?
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Absolutely! If Ryerson can expropriate a plot on Yonge, another institution can certainly expropriate this site. Expropriation wasn't even necessary, though. The feds already had a deal to buy the site.

PS - The 'Clewes Brigrade'? So the way to win your argument here is to lump all those of opposing views into one neatly summed up package of rabid fan boys?
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It's absolutely not about lumping together all the opposition. It's just about lumping together the fan boys.

Ok, so a 24 hour institution - I guess, a hospital - I can't think of any other institutions open 24 hours - other than Tim Hortons.
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Once again... an institution...blended with 24 hour uses. That means two different things on one lot! One is an insitution, one is something else that is open 24 hours. C'mon, read the next sentence.

And then add more streets, because we need more places to drive.
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And walk, and explore. Absolutely.

And then some incredibly expensive detached homes, the owners of which will certainly not want hoi polloi wandering through their back gardens.
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Detached homes? They're obviously ludicrous for this site. Just like townhouses, for the very reasons you mention.



I think by the 'Clewes Brigade' they mean anyone who isn't a contrarian like them.
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A contrarian! Wow, I'm being called a contrarian by someone who thinks Harbour Square is a great building. I guess it does take one to know one...

Gotta admit though, this is a beautiful rendering.
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One would hope that they could afford a good artist for all the money they're going to make.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Absolutely! If Ryerson can expropriate a plot on Yonge, another institution can certainly expropriate this site. Expropriation wasn't even necessary, though. The feds already had a deal to buy the site.
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Ryerson can't expropriate anything. They can only ask the province to do so, which the province has not yet done or said they'd do.


unimaginative2 said:
Once again... an institution...blended with 24 hour uses. That means two different things on one lot! One is an insitution, one is something else that is open 24 hours. C'mon, read the next sentence.
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Ok, some vague institution - the new jail maybe, and a Tim Hortons. Excellent. The cops will have someplace to hang between tazering people to death and showing the flag at peeler bars.


unimaginative2 said:
Detached homes? They're obviously ludicrous for this site.
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That's what will go there if you hack the site up into tiny suburban parcels as you propose. Tiny, expensive parcels. With the biggest possible house on each parcel.
 
Ryerson can't expropriate anything. They can only ask the province to do so, which the province has not yet done or said they'd do.
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An as an agency of the provincial government, that's still expropriation. The city can also expropriate, and that's who should be doing it. This land is an investment, a much better one than most of the other sites they've expropriated over the years.

Ok, some vague institution - the new jail maybe, and a Tim Hortons. Excellent. The cops will have someplace to hang between tazering people to death and showing the flag at peeler bars.
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If those are the best institutions and 24 hour uses you can come up with, I don't think you're the best person to talk about the future of this site.

That's what will go there if you hack the site up into tiny suburban parcels as you propose. Tiny, expensive parcels. With the biggest possible house on each parcel.
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First of all, those lots would not be suburban by any definition of the term. Maybe you're trying to use it as some kind of general-purpose pejorative. I'd imagine the parcels would be quite valuable, that's why it's pretty absurd to suggest that they be developed with single family homes. Three, four, five floor structures with a mixture of offices, residences, and shops fronting on pedestrian-friendly streets sounds pretty good to me.
 
interchange:

...but a residential developer owns this site. Are you advocating that a major institution try to seize the land through expropriation?
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If someone is footing the bill, yeah, that would probably have been one of the better options. The project as it stands right now is so poorly articulated at the ground level, it could be one hell of a disaster.

And don't even get me started on the eastern facade of Phase 2.

AoD
 
unimaginative2 said:
An as an agency of the provincial government, that's still expropriation. The city can also expropriate, and that's who should be doing it. This land is an investment, a much better one than most of the other sites they've expropriated over the years.
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Ryerson isn't an agency of the provincial government. It has no power of expropriation. There is no reason for this property to be expropriated. There is no reason for the Sams building to be expropriated. There is no pressing and substantial benefit to the public. If Ryerson wants it, it should make an offer at the market price, rather than asking the government to force a discount for them.



unimaginative2 said:
If those are the best institutions and 24 hour uses you can come up with, I don't think you're the best person to talk about the future of this site.
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It's your idea. What 24 hour uses are there?



unimaginative2 said:
First of all, those lots would not be suburban by any definition of the term. Maybe you're trying to use it as some kind of general-purpose pejorative. I'd imagine the parcels would be quite valuable, that's why it's pretty absurd to suggest that they be developed with single family homes. Three, four, five floor structures with a mixture of offices, residences, and shops fronting on pedestrian-friendly streets sounds pretty good to me.
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With so few people there, it would be no critical mass of people to support the Rabba and Starbucks you are so desperate to have on this site. Why are you so hell-bent on marginal retail?
 
There is no pressing and substantial benefit to the public.
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That's evidently your opinion.

I want Scaramouche. I want Jamie Kennedy. I want a good sandwich place. I want outdoor restaurants. I want shops. I want offices. I want a cultural institution, like a university or college campus, museum, concert hall, etc. Ryerson and U of T are both expanding, and they might be suitable. Maybe even a night spot or two.


Urban Shocker I think by the 'Clewes Brigade' they mean anyone who isn't a contrarian like them. In other words, people who are in sync with the contemporary cultural scene in Toronto as expressed through the architects who win professional and critical acclaim from their peers for their work.

In other words, people who are neither ( choose one or more: ) clueless about the city they live in and it's design history, nor faux wraiths, nor the "quality finishes uber alles" brigade ... like them.
Click to expand...

Coming from someone who dismisses Jane Jacobs and her ideas and embraces the modernist planning principles of the 1950s and 60s, that means quite a bit.
 
If you enjoyed "Rumble in the Distillery" and "Showdown at St. Mike's"...

You won't want to miss...

WAR ON THE WATERFRONT:
The Clewes Brigade vs. the Jacobians - A Fight to the Finish!



I'd pay the $29.95 on HBO to watch that.
 
SeanTrans said:
If you enjoyed "Rumble in the Distillery" and "Showdown at St. Mike's"...

You won't want to miss...

WAR ON THE WATERFRONT:
The Clewes Brigade vs. the Jacobians - A Fight to the Finish!



I'd pay the $29.95 on HBO to watch that.
Click to expand...
any discounts to UT members?
 
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