[ahmad.m.atiya]

Well, clearly I'm outnumbered Something that's been happening somewhat consistently since I joined this board.

Yep, I'm in the same position. I agree with everything you've said, but I would never argue for it in fear of being harassed by Adma and the like.

 

[borgo100]

Someone should suggest to Redpath to build a Sugar museum at street level along Queens Quay.

 

[Miscreant]

Yep, I'm in the same position. I agree with everything you've said, but I would never argue for it in fear of being harassed by Adma and the like.

Yeah, I'm finding that out...odd. Urban development aggression. That's a new one for me.

 

[grey]

Yep, I'm in the same position. I agree with everything you've said, but I would never argue for it in fear of being harassed by Adma and the like.

Aren't you the guy who said the 1920s art deco Loblaws building at Lakeshore & Bathurst should be torn down because it looks like an 18th century bordello?

Heritage buildings are not popular with everyone, but that's largely due to a lack of information. And I find it fascinating that people with such little interest in their surroundings choose to participate on this forum, but whatever. Give it time...

Yeah, I'm finding that out...odd. Urban development aggression. That's a new one for me.

A lot of Toronto's heritage structures were bulldozed as a result of disinterest or outright contempt for this city and it's history. So rather than calling people out for aggression when you encounter resistance, maybe read some more threads and books and educate youself? I think you'll find that you'll not only develop a greater appreciation for your city, but your sense of taste in general will improve dramatically.

 

[adHominem]

Someone should suggest to Redpath to build a Sugar museum at street level along Queens Quay.

There already is one. Or do you mean in a new, separate building?

 

[interchange42]

Yeah, I'm finding that out...odd. Urban development aggression. That's a new one for me.

Welcome to UT, Miscreant! We are a passionate group, and we seem to enjoy the dustups a bit. Don't take anything too personally, and it'll feel like home in no time.

42

 

[Urban Shocker]

Hmmm, 1 million metric tons of raw sugar from Brazil shipped by planes, trains, or automobiles...dont know about that.

Perhaps we could grow and process sugar beet in Ontario, like we used to a century ago, rather than importing cane?

 

[Miscreant]

Heritage buildings are not popular with everyone, but that's largely due to a lack of information. And I find it fascinating that people with such little interest in their surroundings choose to participate on this forum, but whatever. Give it time...

A lot of Toronto's heritage structures were bulldozed as a result of disinterest or outright contempt for this city and it's history. So rather than calling people out for aggression when you encounter resistance, maybe read some more threads and books and educate youself? I think you'll find that you'll not only develop a greater appreciation for your city, but your sense of taste in general will improve dramatically.

Well, we can get into heady debates here about the relation between taste and knowledge, but I don't think we need to distract ourselves that way. The point, as I see it, is pretty simple: when I go to a waterfront beach-like area, I'd prefer not to be sitting beside a factory.

If you want to dress up your satisfaction with that situation by calling this factory a heritage property--sheerly in virtue of its age, not necessarily how it beautifies the area, which I take to be a major part of what constitutes a heritage property--that's fine. I have no claims on how the concept of a 'heritage property' is to be used.

And if we take good taste to be a fondness for dirty, smelly factories in developing areas, I proudly take my self to have extremely poor taste

 

[egotrippin]

Well, we can get into heady debates here about the relation between taste and knowledge, but I don't think we need to distract ourselves that way. The point, as I see it, is pretty simple: when I go to a waterfront beach-like area, I'd prefer not to be sitting beside a factory.

If you want to dress up your satisfaction with that situation by calling this factory a heritage property--sheerly in virtue of its age, not necessarily how it beautifies the area, which I take to be a major part of what constitutes a heritage property--that's fine. I have no claims on how the concept of a 'heritage property' is to be used.

And if we take good taste to be a fondness for dirty, smelly factories in developing areas, I proudly take my self to have extremely poor taste

The difference here though, is that this isn't a beach in a traditional sense. This is an urban beach in the middle of a developing downtown neighbourhood. It's completely non-traditional, and its proximity to an active sugar factory adds to the overall interest. If a traditional beach, sans factories, is what you want, you might be pleased to know that Toronto offers several kilometres of them about a 15 minute streetcar ride away.

Once the area's redevelopment really gets underway there will be sidewalks, landscaping, reduced lanes for car traffic, and a much more urban environment as a result. You'll barely notice the factory; well except for the massive freighters coming in here and there.

 

[Miscreant]

The difference here though, is that this isn't a beach in a traditional sense. This is an urban beach in the middle of a developing downtown neighbourhood. It's completely non-traditional, and its proximity to an active sugar factory adds to the overall interest. If a traditional beach, sans factories, is what you want, you might be pleased to know that Toronto offers several kilometres of them about a 15 minute streetcar ride away.

Once the area's redevelopment really gets underway there will be sidewalks, landscaping, reduced lanes for car traffic, and a much more urban environment as a result. You'll barely notice the factory; well except for the massive freighters coming in here and there.

Right, yeah, I think I appreciate your point that it's an urban beach--hence my comment that it's the area is beach-like. But I'm not getting as much mileage as you are from this observation. Fine, it's an urban beach; we can call it that. But the first thought that comes to my mind is: are factories urban? Well, kind of sort of, and kind of not really. If Redpath wanted to snag that lot on Wellesley between Yonge and Church I think people would rightly be confused: but...that's a factory..and this is an...urban area.

But yet still, your line of reasoning seems to be in many ways the same as the other poster's: there's something I'm not understanding about the concept of the beach, the concept of the area, the history of the city, and so on, that's responsible for my poor judgment. I think that's mistaken, and taken too seriously it'll over-intellectualize a--I repeat--really basic judgment call I'm making: when I go a beach--urban beach, beach-like area, chic beach (perhaps?)--I don't want to look at a smelly, ugly, dirty factory.

 

[hawc]

Ahmad.m.atiya, aren't you the guy who said the 1920s art deco Loblaws building at Lakeshore & Bathurst should be torn down because it looks like an 18th century bordello?

Haha, that's awesome. I agree with ahmad.m.atiya. Tear the bordello down!

Aren't there some preservationists on here arguing for the preservation of the Hearn Generating Station? What's next you'll want those ugly silos at the foot of Bathurst and Queens Quay saved.

Just cause it's old doesn't mean we shouldn't bulldoze it.

 

[hawc]

When I go to a waterfront beach-like area, I'd prefer not to be sitting beside a factory.

I heard the RedPath factory attracts a lot of bees and wasps.

 

[Miscreant]

I heard the RedPath factory attracts a lot of bees and wasps.

But, don't you see? That's part of the concept; the beach is an area in which we paradoxically seek calm and relaxation while at the same time are confronted with our inevitable intrusion on processes that have predated our appropriation of the area! The bees are part of it! My kids LOVE getting chased by the bees when we go! Those bees nests are practically heritage...er, properties/things!

 

[agoraflaneur]

Aren't there some preservationists on here arguing for the preservation of the Hearn Generating Station? What's next you'll want those ugly silos at the foot of Bathurst and Queens Quay saved.

I generally take a more fine line when discussing heritage preservation. I certainly don't believe that everything deserves to be preserved, but on the other hand there is much that should be if we are to have a unique sense of place and space.

First, the Hearn Station is absolutely fantastic and must be preserved. Its brick is beautiful and has a massive space within. The stack is a presence all of its own - it is huge and a reminder of the past. If you have been to London, you will know that the Tate is actually smaller than the Hearn - in many ways less impressive. We could do so much with it to repurpose it and make it a unique landmark.

Now, if the argument was to keep it as a power generation facility, I wouldn't be so sure. Thus I am not as comfortable with the Redpath. Its quality is certainly lower than the Hearn; however, it is unique as well. I do worry that it inhibits massive amounts of the central city from development, and that would be the main reason I would support its demise - as part of a making way for a whole new amazing neighbourhood. Though that seems to be happening regardless.

As for the silos, there are also many interesting repurposing schemes that utilize them in interesting ways. To me, this is better than an ex nihilo approach. We do have other parcels of land without heritage to build on. And if you look at the recent pic from the thread, you will see its beauty as well.

In the end, the city is what it was, and demolishing everything to make way for the future would not really add to it. Too many other cities are doing the same thing, and the world is going to have a lot of turn of the century neomodernism. Not so many Hearns or Silos. Let's keep them and 'make them new' - the real tenet of modernism.

 

[grey]

The factory and its industrial activity add vibrancy to the boring formula of offices and residential. The Dutch landscape architects understood this and designed the park to respond to the presence of industry by embracing it as an integral part of the neighbourhood and not an oppressive eyesore. The loading and unloading of these impressive ships is a theatrical element not available anywhere else in the city. It's something more common in older, bigger cities.

As for the silos, there are also many interesting repurposing schemes that utilize them in interesting ways. To me, this is better than an ex nihilo approach. We do have other parcels of land without heritage to build on. And if you look at the recent pic from the thread, you will see its beauty as well.

In the end, the city is what it was, and demolishing everything to make way for the future would not really add to it. Too many other cities are doing the same thing, and the world is going to have a lot of turn of the century neomodernism. Not so many Hearns or Silos. Let's keep them and 'make them new' - the real tenet of modernism.

They're blind to this. It's the same line of thinking that was around in the '60s and '70s. If the flatiron or the distillery hadn't been cleaned up, they'd no doubt be calling for the destruction of those, too.