[Rainforest]

The net effect is that TTC will have 9 more trains than it used to have, and will have 60 trains available for the 48 currently in use. With the planned 13% spares, TTC should be able to run 53 trains instead of the current 48.

This does leave few extra trains for growth though, especially with the plan to extend short-turns from Eglinton West, to further north. Which is why if you look at the TTC capital budget, there is money there to order another 10 trains for delivery in 2015 (that would make 80 new trains).

Yes. Moreover, each new TR train will have a slightly larger capacity than a train in use today.

Still, will it be enough to accommodate all growth? Plus, there is an issue of infrastructure capacity (platforms, stairs, elevators) at the key stations.

 

[nfitz]

Yes. Moreover, each new TR train will have a slightly larger capacity than a train in use today.

It would slightly. However the doors are no bigger, so if you were to fill it to the new capacity, I'd think it would take longer to load/unload at critical stations.

Still, will it be enough to accommodate all growth? Plus, there is an issue of infrastructure capacity (platforms, stairs, elevators) at the key stations.

A very good question! The only major gain I see is with Automatic Train Control, you'll be able to run trains closer together, and have more trains per hour arrive at Yonge/Bloor - but that's still years away, and who knows how much higher the demand would be for the Yonge line, if it could actually handle more people ... there's a lot of people who avoid it now in rush-hour, I'm sure some of the afternoon passengers on the 504 streetcar might shift, as well as some going up University.

 

[Rainforest]

In an ideal world, I'd agree. However, when playing the political game, I think the Yonge extension needs to happen first. This is what I think needs to happen in order for us to get BOTH the Yonge extension and the DRL:

1) Both projects are studied, planned, and get to the point where they're shovel-ready pending funding.
2) Funding comes through for the Yonge extension, which starts construction.
3) 6 months after the opening of the Yonge extension, everybody realizes that it has created a clusterf**k on the Yonge line south of Eglinton. This raises the eyre of citizens who scream "we need to do something!"
4) The DRL, with its shovel-ready plan sitting on the shelf, gets pulled off the shelf and in a haste to fix the problem, Queen's Park allocates funding to it, with the project being fast-tracked to fix the problem asap.
5) DRL gets built.

Perhaps you are right that this is the only way it will work.

But it won't be pretty. Even if the design is ready, it will take at least 4 - 5 years, if not more, before DRL opens. For all those years, Yonge will operate in the "clusterf**k" mode.

 

[nfitz]

But it won't be pretty. Even if the design is ready, it will take at least 4 - 5 years, if not more, before DRL opens. For all those years, Yonge will operate in the "clusterf**k" mode.

I wonder though, how else we'd ever get a DRL, if there isn't a willingness to build it at the same time (or first).

 

[sixrings]

if or when a DRL gets built up to sheppard or Finch Yonge street which is already buzzing with development will absolutely EXPLODE!!!... The downtown Core will be maxed out and Yonge will be THE next natural place to develop HIGH HIGH RISES.... I read in a newspaper some guy complaining that Lawrence and Yonge was being developed and its one of the last low rise areas around yonge... That type of thinking will seem prehistoric in 2040.

 

[Rainforest]

The Yonge North extension should not be treated as a 416-vs-905 issue, but rather as a plain capacity issue of the Yonge line.

Even if the 416 / 905 border was north of Hwy 7, and 100% of the planned extension was within the TTC jurisdiction, it would be a concern if such extension caused a choke downstream.

 

[kEiThZ]

Perhaps you are right that this is the only way it will work.

But it won't be pretty. Even if the design is ready, it will take at least 4 - 5 years, if not more, before DRL opens. For all those years, Yonge will operate in the "clusterf**k" mode.

Time to use your Presto card and take the GO inside the 416 then.

 

[Rainforest]

I wonder though, how else we'd ever get a DRL, if there isn't a willingness to build it at the same time (or first).

Perhaps the two projects, Yonge North and DRL, could be bundled together - and open simultaneously ...

 

[Rainforest]

Time to use your Presto card and take the GO inside the 416 then.

Only two GO corridors could meaningfully relief Yonge; those are Richmond Hill and Stouffville. Currently, both have very low capacity, and are not scheduled for major enhancements.

 

[kEiThZ]

In an ideal world, I'd agree. However, when playing the political game, I think the Yonge extension needs to happen first. This is what I think needs to happen in order for us to get BOTH the Yonge extension and the DRL:

1) Both projects are studied, planned, and get to the point where they're shovel-ready pending funding.
2) Funding comes through for the Yonge extension, which starts construction.
3) 6 months after the opening of the Yonge extension, everybody realizes that it has created a clusterf**k on the Yonge line south of Eglinton. This raises the eyre of citizens who scream "we need to do something!"
4) The DRL, with its shovel-ready plan sitting on the shelf, gets pulled off the shelf and in a haste to fix the problem, Queen's Park allocates funding to it, with the project being fast-tracked to fix the problem asap.
5) DRL gets built.

This is exactly how it's going to happen. When Hudak gets elected he's going to want to build some transit (just for the sake of ticking off a legacy box) and you can guess what he's going to build after helping Ford get going on Sheppard and Eglinton.

But the crowding issue cuts both ways. In the morning rush 416 residents lose out of course because the trains will be packed before they hit Sheppard. In the evening rush, there's equal opportunity for all riders to get a seat. Now it's going to suck for 905ers who have stand all the way home. Or maybe they'll crowd the Yonge line in the evening. So it'll suck for everybody....to the extent that more transit can be bad.

All said and done, a crowded subway system is still far better than no subway service. Taking the line upto Hwy 7 is a solid idea. And better than not building something.

 

[kEiThZ]

There needs to be some bizzaro-land debate with people extoling the virtues of the 647/289.

Nobody wins with either of those area codes.

 

[kEiThZ]

Only two GO corridors could meaningfully relief Yonge; those are Richmond Hill and Stouffville. Currently, both have very low capacity, and are not scheduled for major enhancements.

Not true. Many a Scarborough/East York resident take the GO on lines like Lakeshore East. In their own small way, their helping east congestion at Yonge-Bloor.

 

[nfitz]

The Yonge North extension should not be treated as a 416-vs-905 issue, but rather as a plain capacity issue of the Yonge line.

It should be ... however Region of York is making it a 416-vs-905 by pressuring Metrolinx and the Provincial Government to fast-track the Yonge extension without pushing for funding the DRL.

Even if the 416 / 905 border was north of Hwy 7, and 100% of the planned extension was within the TTC jurisdiction, it would be a concern if such extension caused a choke downstream.

If the area was 100% within TTC, then we wouldn't have the local government trying to push Yonge before DRL.

 

[kEiThZ]

The Yonge North extension should not be treated as a 416-vs-905 issue, but rather as a plain capacity issue of the Yonge line.

Even if the 416 / 905 border was north of Hwy 7, and 100% of the planned extension was within the TTC jurisdiction, it would be a concern if such extension caused a choke downstream.

I will take a contrarian view.

If HWY 7 was the boundary, crowding or not, this thing would have been a priority and nobody would be arguing about whether it was a worthwhile exercise or if it was cause over-crowding. Certainly, nobody said anything when Transit City proposed to dump thousands or riders onto Yonge. I didn't see people saying, "Stop Transit City! We need the DRL first!"

 

[kEiThZ]

It should be ... however Region of York is making it a 416-vs-905 by pressuring Metrolinx and the Provincial Government to fast-track the Yonge extension without pushing for funding the DRL.

It's not York Region's job to push the DRL.