[gweed123]

I didn't see people saying, "Stop Transit City! We need the DRL first!"

Pretty sure I was saying that . DRL, connection to STC, and Eglinton were my top 3 priorities, in that order.

It's not York Region's job to push the DRL.

Agreed. But it is Toronto's job to tell York Region that unless the DRL gets funded, they're not going to support a Yonge extension. Toronto could play hardball on this, but it's very unlikely that they will.

 

[BMO]

Agreed. But it is Toronto's job to tell York Region that unless the DRL gets funded, they're not going to support a Yonge extension. Toronto could play hardball on this, but it's very unlikely that they will.

What leverage does Toronto really have at this point in the game to deny funding for a subway expansion? Even if it doesn't support it as its #1 choice. The city is so poor it'll take whatever is given.

 

[kEiThZ]

What leverage does Toronto really have at this point in the game to deny funding for a subway expansion? Even if it doesn't support it as its #1 choice. The city is so poor it'll take whatever is given.

+1

Whores rarely refuse Johns...even if they're whoring for transit lines.

 

[gweed123]

What leverage does Toronto really have at this point in the game to deny funding for a subway expansion? Even if it doesn't support it as its #1 choice. The city is so poor it'll take whatever is given.

They can't really play hardball with Metrolinx (don't bite the hand that feeds you), but they can to a certain extent play it with York Region. If it comes down to "only one project can get funding", Toronto could make a pretty strong case why the DRL should get it first.

Now I stress that this CAN happen, but it likely won't. Toronto will likely just sit back and let Metrolinx decide.

 

[nfitz]

It's not York Region's job to push the DRL.

Agreed. However it is exactly this that makes it a 905-vs-416 issue.

 

[Markster]

With the way the debate is going in this thread, the city needs this to be built so that the entire YUS line is no longer the responsibility of Toronto to expand. Then the debate can finally return to Sheppard/DRL. And once Sheppard is built from Pearson to Malven, they can finally build the DRL.

 

[gweed123]

Agreed. However it is exactly this that makes it a 905-vs-416 issue.

Every city/region is doing the exact same thing: looking out for their own interests first, and then the interests of the metropolitan area at large. It's the city/region's job to go to Metrolinx and say "here are our list of priorities", and then it's up to Metrolinx to choose, out of all of every city/region's top priorities, which ones will be Metrolinx's overall top priorities. Because the DRL is so far down Toronto's list, and because the Yonge subway is near (if not at) the top of York Region's, it's very likely that the Yonge subway will get funded before the DRL will.

 

[kEiThZ]

Agreed. However it is exactly this that makes it a 905-vs-416 issue.

How so?

Both areas need transit and specifically this line eventually. It's just a matter of scheduling on when it's built (before or after the DRL). It's only a 416-905 fight if you believe that all transit improvements are a zero-sum game. That's not necessarily so. There's no guarantee that the choice is Yonge then DRL. The choice could very well be Yonge or nothing. Just like the Spadina extension.

 

[kEiThZ]

Every city/region is doing the exact same thing: looking out for their own interests first, and then the interests of the metropolitan area at large. It's the city/region's job to go to Metrolinx and say "here are our list of priorities", and then it's up to Metrolinx to choose, out of all of every city/region's top priorities, which ones will be Metrolinx's overall top priorities. Because the DRL is so far down Toronto's list, and because the Yonge subway is near (if not at) the top of York Region's, it's very likely that the Yonge subway will get funded before the DRL will.

Exactly. People keep blaming York region when they should be blaming Toronto City Council. His blondness ranked LRT on Morningside, Jane, Finch West, etc over the DRL. His fatness has ranked subway on Sheppard over the DRL. And yet we blame the Yorkies?

Why? Seems to me like they are the only ones with a consistent plan.

 

[BMO]

I think it's because the individual municipalities in the Regions like York and Waterloo, Peel, etc have less of the opportunity to be selfish and do what's best for their own self, and because of the structure of the Regions there's a more widespread look at how things affect and benefit the whole Region as opposed to one municipality.

 

[nfitz]

Exactly. People keep blaming York region when they should be blaming Toronto City Council. His blondness ranked LRT on Morningside, Jane, Finch West, etc over the DRL.

Where do you get this stuff? Metrolinx put both the Morningside and DRL in the 25-year plan. Toronto City Council then passed a motion asking the DRL be moved to the 15-year plan (the same as where Jane and Finch West were put). How is this ranking LRT on Morningide above the DRL? Surely it's the opposite.

Miller and Giambrone were the first politicians to seriously discuss the DRL in decades.

 

[kEiThZ]

Where do you get this stuff? Metrolinx put both the Morningside and DRL in the 25-year plan. Toronto City Council then passed a motion asking the DRL be moved to the 15-year plan (the same as where Jane and Finch West were put). How is this ranking LRT on Morningide above the DRL? Surely it's the opposite.

Miller and Giambrone were the first politicians to seriously discuss the DRL in decades.

My mistake. They put the DRL on par with a Jane LRT.

My point being that they certainly didn't think it was that much a priority. If the DRL was that much of a priority why was the first transit project under the Miller/Giambrone regime Sheppard East?

How can anybody expect Metrolinx to take the need for the DRL seriously when the first project that administration asked for was Sheppard East? And Eglinton and Finch West after that?

 

[kEiThZ]

I think it's because the individual municipalities in the Regions like York and Waterloo, Peel, etc have less of the opportunity to be selfish and do what's best for their own self, and because of the structure of the Regions there's a more widespread look at how things affect and benefit the whole Region as opposed to one municipality.

And this is why I think the subway/LRT network should be taken out of the hands of the TTC and integrated with GO.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Look, the province put out a huge list of projects deemed to be of REGIONAL importance and this included Transit City because Transit City was Toronto's priority. Now that priority has become even more narrow.

Despite their desire for the subway it's important to remember YR was not expecting that announcement. They were on the brink of moving forward with BRT for Yonge Street - literally, approving expropriations that week. Since then, they've done extensive consultation and completed EAs so I utterly fail to see how, at any point, they can be faulted. The NERVE of these suburbs trying to actually build transit-oriented development with, like, transit!

It's people on this board who turn it into a 416-905 thing. It's pretty clear, I think, that the whole reason Mlinx exists is because TTC and other transit bodies could not be trusted to coordinate on creating a regional system. As we speak, Mlinx is evaluating the Yonge extension in the context of other needs (including DRL) and will eventually "rule" on what should be built first, when the money's available. Then the province can abide by or ignore that recommendation.

I 100% understand the need for DRL but it's always been the city that failed to prioritize it and no one is going to land a definitive argument for why one project has to go before the other; they're both needed and funding is scarce. But York Region has done everything anyone has asked when it comes to trying to push intensification and cutting off their balls at Steeles Avenue (or Finch, for that matter) is self-defeating for their entire GTA, IMHO.

By contrast, the DRL barely even exists outside of this board. You never see it mentioned in ANY of the articles about how Ford re-jigged Transit City, for example, because even Mr. Subway doesn't have it in his Top 5 priorities (maybe Top 10?). In that context, why should Metrolinx or York Region be forced to defend it?

 

[BMO]

^well said