[drum118]

If one looks at various feeder lines as well development, Yonge is the main transit line south of Steeles.

The BD has been around since 1966, yet has never got off the ground in development to really support it in the first place.

To see any real development at either Downsview or STC, it will be decades before they match Steeles and Yonge. Don't forget, Downsview has only got a increase of height in the last few years or so compare to the past restriction.

One only has to look at the amount of development taking place now between Sheppard and Finch to see STC been left is the dust.

Once the Eglinton line comes on line, there will be a shift in travel use, where Sheppard will loose feeder riders.

As for the ridership on Yonge between Finch and Steeles vs Sheppard east of Don Mills, you are comparing apple to oranges, as most buses are running close doors in this section since no one wants on or off the buses in this section since they are going to the subway on Yonge. Then its only a short section in the first place.

Once you go north of Steeles, ridership falls below the current Sheppard bus use. The big drop I see on Yonge is at 16th Ave, and after passing RH, it really drop off. Since I don't ride Yonge at AM Peak, I don't know how it compare to PM Peak. I only can look at PM peak. Off peak is not that great in either direction, especially north of RH.

 

[xtremesniper]

All the density is east of Yonge though, between just east of Bayview and Kennedy. I do not believe that 14,000/hour at Richmond Hill Centre is possible from feeder buses alone, since there is nothing at Yonge/Highway 7 except big box stores.

Are we already forgetting that part of the RHC growth plan is a huge redevelopment of that entire big box plaza into a residential/commercial split development?

Man, people on here have terrible memory.

It's as simple as this, guys: York Region wants to grow by increasing density instead of continuing to sprawl. They want to do this correctly and get it right from now while they have a chance (and a blank slate) and not make the same fatal mistakes that Toronto has repeatedly made year after year.

Should we seriously be shaming them for trying to think long term? Honestly, sometimes I wonder what people actually want from the GTA. When we have no subways, we blame the fact that we didn't think long term. When we are capable of getting subways, we say that they aren't worth our while in the short-term.

Holy hell.

 

[Electrify]

I think the main difference between a subway on Yonge compared to a subway on Sheppard is to provide network connectivity. At Highway 7, the subway would connect to west-east and northbound Viva services, as well as a GO 407 BRT busway. While there is an important transit hub at Scarborough Centre, with connections to intercity, GO, and eventually DRT buses, it should be noted that there will already be a connection from the Scarborough LRT line.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Are we already forgetting that part of the RHC growth plan is a huge redevelopment of that entire big box plaza into a residential/commercial split development?

Man, people on here have terrible memory.

It's as simple as this, guys: York Region wants to grow by increasing density instead of continuing to sprawl. They want to do this correctly and get it right from now while they have a chance (and a blank slate) and not make the same fatal mistakes that Toronto has repeatedly made year after year.

Should we seriously be shaming them for trying to think long term? Honestly, sometimes I wonder what people actually want from the GTA. When we have no subways, we blame the fact that we didn't think long term. When we are capable of getting subways, we say that they aren't worth our while in the short-term.

Yes, yes, yes. It's amazing how many times the thread keeps cycling back to this point. But I'll go you one better: This isn't just a York Region plan or some pipe dream in Richmond Hill. It's provincial law. I don't know many times we have to produce this map but not only is RHC/Langstaff a provincial Urban Growth Centre it's arguably the biggest, certainly in terms of its transit infrastructure..

...then you have the direct link between the three other centres in York Region through Viva (and, eventually, the 407 Transitway). It's a central part of a much bigger network, in terms of transit infrastructure and a new planning regime.

So this IS happening (and, yes, it's also happening in STC but not along Sheppard to the same degree) and there are much bigger forces at work than what you can measure by looking at the bus ridership stats or the strip malls there now.

 

[Dan416]

Yes, yes, yes. It's amazing how many times the thread keeps cycling back to this point. But I'll go you one better: This isn't just a York Region plan or some pipe dream in Richmond Hill. It's provincial law. I don't know many times we have to produce this map but not only is RHC/Langstaff a provincial Urban Growth Centre it's arguably the biggest, certainly in terms of its transit infrastructure.

Uh, what?

 

[rbt]

Uh, what?

Doesn't seem strictly wrong to me.

Over 30 years, if substantial funding is found, that small area will have Yonge line extension, VIVA east/west, 407 BRT East/West, and Richmond Hill REX.

 

[rbt]

Uh, what?

Doesn't seem strictly wrong to me.

Over 30 years, if substantial funding is found, that small area will have Yonge line extension, VIVA east/west on Highway 7, GO 407 BRT East/West, and Richmond Hill REX.

Only Kennedy and Union stations have more new/upgraded lines on a map but neither of those is a growth center (downtown Toronto will obviously grow, it just isn't a specific point on the map).

 

[taal]

Out of the core, I can see it ... future subway, BRT, and go line.

Moreover, even compared to say Yonge and Eglinton it can *potentially* i.e. on paper have more ridership, as Hi-way 7 east (not so much west) is full of office use. On Eglinton there is a little bit around the DVP but not much else.

 

[sixrings]

If one looks at various feeder lines as well development, Yonge is the main transit line south of Steeles.

The BD has been around since 1966, yet has never got off the ground in development to really support it in the first place.
.

I might be wrong but I feel like a big reason bd development never got off the ground was because nimbys kept stopping it and making it unprofitable for developers. However yonge has seemed to embrace high rise development and as a result will see construction. I also believe the nimbys won't be as big a factor for the outer underground eglinton lrt stations. Keele caledonia Laird WESTON all want development.

 

[smallspy]

I might be wrong but I feel like a big reason bd development never got off the ground was because nimbys kept stopping it and making it unprofitable for developers. However yonge has seemed to embrace high rise development and as a result will see construction. I also believe the nimbys won't be as big a factor for the outer underground eglinton lrt stations. Keele caledonia Laird WESTON all want development.

NIMBYs had nothing to do with it, other than simply not selling their land. There just hasn't been the same level of land handover as there has been along Yonge.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Uh, what?

I guess others have already answered but all you have to do is google Peter Calthorpe and Langstaff and you'll find a dozen articles with him saying it's one of the most transit-intensive sites in North America, to say nothing of the GTA. YMMV but even Viva/YRT/Go/subway would be impressive but throw in the transitway (which could eventually be LRT) and all-day GO service and it's a VERY well-served intersection.

Here's the Langstaff page on Calthorpe's own site.

"The Langstaff site enjoys an unprecedented level of planned and existing transit service, a level unique perhaps to non-downtown North American urban areas."

 

[sixrings]

NIMBYs had nothing to do with it, other than simply not selling their land. There just hasn't been the same level of land handover as there has been along Yonge.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Well im confused by that because since the eglinton LRT line got the green light there have been several condo proposals between dufferin and bathurst. big coincidence is what i assume your answer will be.

 

[car4041]

Well im confused by that because since the eglinton LRT line got the green light there have been several condo proposals between dufferin and bathurst. big coincidence is what i assume your answer will be.

Do you have any examples of the nimbyism that you suggest is holding back development on Bloor and Danforth? Nimbyism is only one of many imaginable reasons why we might see condo proposals on Eglinton but not on Bloor.

(And to be honest, if the Crossways is an example of what we would have gotten, I'm very thankful that there wasn't more redevelopment around B-D stations!)

 

[W. K. Lis]

Do you have any examples of the nimbyism that you suggest is holding back development on Bloor and Danforth? Nimbyism is only one of many imaginable reasons why we might see condo proposals on Eglinton but not on Bloor.

(And to be honest, if the Crossways is an example of what we would have gotten, I'm very thankful that there wasn't more redevelopment around B-D stations!)

One example, from this link:

May 15, 2012 - Despite overwhelming opposition in the form of over 60 written submissions and 7 oral deputations, Etobicoke York Community Council votes to approve the site plan application proposed by Daniels Corporation, and to instruct the City Solicitor, the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning and any other appropriate City staff to attend the OMB hearing in support of the proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-law Amendment appeals.

The final proposal does not include a much promised daycare amenity, but does include several new substantial increases to the size of the building:
- The height of the northwest, southwest, southeast wings has increased by 2.7 metres
- The 9th storey bump-ups have increased by various heights ranging from 3 to 3.2 metres
- The mechanical penthouse (15th and 16th storeys of the building) has increased from 24.8 metres to 45 metres wide, essentially a doubling in size equal to almost half a football field!
- The 9th floor northeast corner fill-in has increased by 3 metres

This is the NIMYism in response to the development at 1844-1854 Bloor Street West for a 14-storey condo between Pacific Avenue to Oakmount Road.

This despite it being on the Bloor-Danforth subway between the High Park and Keele subway stations.

 

[MafaldaBoy]

Presentation on conceptual station design:
http://www2.markham.ca/markham/ccbs...rvices/pl120515/Yonge Subway Presentation.pdf