[pman]

It’s a little over the top. I have no problem with an interchange station here and there. Never stopped me in Mexico City or Paris.

I don’t think HW was saying interline is bad in theory. Obviously it works well in much of the rest of the world. It’s logical. But this is Toronto - we do things in our own idiosyncratic and mostly inferior way, without the desire or ability to learn from other cities. I mean, FFS, we’re only now getting ready to implement the pantograph...at some point in the distant future.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Well, looks like the names won't be changed any time soon.

Dear Mr. Chan,

Thank you for reaching out to us. I apologize for not being in touch sooner.
I appreciate your suggestion on how we can reduce confusion for those not familiar with our stations in Richmond Hill. As Langstaff GO station is named after the street in which our GO buses serve the station, we are trying to keep this distinction geographically, as well as represent the hamlets in which people live.
With that being said, we are constantly monitoring our service to ensure it's responsive to the changing needs in the community and your feedback will be included.
Thank you for your patience as you waited on a response.


Sincerely,

Lisa Hughes

 

[smallspy]

This would be a good secondary benefit. I think that the money may well get spent and notwithstanding others' opinions here, I can't say I am in disagreement with a heavy rail cross city rapid transit solution at the north end of the city. It parallels the 401 and thus far, transit planning has not even begun to think about how to reduce our auto dependence on that.

I'm not in disagreement with its construction either, in theory. But I certainly wouldn't consider it a high priority. There are a lot of other lines that will give us far more bang-for-the-buck that should be considered far more important.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[BurlOak]

I'm not in disagreement with its construction either, in theory. But I certainly wouldn't consider it a high priority. There are a lot of other lines that will give us far more bang-for-the-buck that should be considered far more important.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

The most important transit priority is the one that can be built cut-and-cover and cheaply. That would set the precedent that things must be planned and constructed reasonably and not for top dollar. Prioritizing this will actually create more transit where it's needed. I also think that a B-D extension to Honeydale (427) is also a priority for the same reason.

Here, from Webleck Road (about 800m west of Yonge) to the Don River - it would have to be cut-and-cover anyway (especially if there was a Senlac Station). The bridge would extend to about 400m east of Bathurst - not enough space between the bridge and Bathurst Station to warrant tunneling, so this too would be cut-and-cover. From Bathurst Station to Allen-Sheppard station, it is less than 2km, with no great TBM launch site, so this too would be cut-and-cover.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I'm not in disagreement with its construction either, in theory. But I certainly wouldn't consider it a high priority. There are a lot of other lines that will give us far more bang-for-the-buck that should be considered far more important.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I don't think anyone is in disagreement with that (except for a few people on the Debate The Merits of the SSE thread). Some of us just have the tendency to fantasize about the future for human reasons.

However, that being said, the Sheppard West extension would probably be significantly more beneficial to Toronto and the TTC than the Yonge North Subway Extension, the TYSSE beyond Pioneer Villiage, the FWLRT, the SSE, a Sheppard East subway extension, The Jane LRT (before Crosstown and FWLRT) and a few of the smart-track stations when the benefits of connectivity between both sides of the Yonge line, accessibility to the Wilson Yard, and making the Sheppard line useful are there.

 

[smallspy]

The most important transit priority is the one that can be built cut-and-cover and cheaply. That would set the precedent that things must be planned and constructed reasonably and not for top dollar. Prioritizing this will actually create more transit where it's needed. I also think that a B-D extension to Honeydale (427) is also a priority for the same reason.

Here, from Webleck Road (about 800m west of Yonge) to the Don River - it would have to be cut-and-cover anyway (especially if there was a Senlac Station). The bridge would extend to about 400m east of Bathurst - not enough space between the bridge and Bathurst Station to warrant tunneling, so this too would be cut-and-cover. From Bathurst Station to Allen-Sheppard station, it is less than 2km, with no great TBM launch site, so this too would be cut-and-cover.

Let me get this straight - are you suggesting that the cheapest route is the best option for any transit route?

Because there's a lot of experts - and I'm talking about the guys who get paid to do this, not the guys like us on boards like this who are simply over-informed laypersons - who strongly, strongly disagree with that.

Also, tunnelling does not automatically mean that a TBM is involved. There were no TBMs used in the construction of quite a few of the older tunnelled sections of the Toronto subway. Ottawa certainly didn't need one for their LRT.

However, that being said, the Sheppard West extension would probably be significantly more beneficial to Toronto and the TTC than the Yonge North Subway Extension, the TYSSE beyond Pioneer Villiage, the FWLRT, the SSE, a Sheppard East subway extension, The Jane LRT (before Crosstown and FWLRT) and a few of the smart-track stations when the benefits of connectivity between both sides of the Yonge line, accessibility to the Wilson Yard, and making the Sheppard line useful are there.

I disagree. Save for the DRL, there is no single line that will have a higher opening day ridership, and will do more to move people onto public transit than the Yonge extension northwards. The Sheppard West extension will never, ever come close to the ridership of the north end of the Yonge Line.

There are benefits to it above and beyond just as a way to get trains onto the Yonge Line more quickly, sure. But there also are way more important projects in need of funding.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I disagree. Save for the DRL, there is no single line that will have a higher opening day ridership, and will do more to move people onto public transit than the Yonge extension northwards. The Sheppard West extension will never, ever come close to the ridership of the north end of the Yonge Line.

There are benefits to it above and beyond just as a way to get trains onto the Yonge Line more quickly, sure. But there also are way more important projects in need of funding.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Notice how I did not include the DRL (Short, Long, and U) because that project should have been built decades ago.

Neither will the Spadina line, the Bloor line, the Danforth Line, or even the University line. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be built after DRL Short and Long. The Yonge line is at the centre of Toronto, and if Sheppard users can shift over to the Spadina Line, or Yonge North users can shift over to the Spadina line, then that provides relief to the yonge line as well. If the DRL is going to be full from day one (Which I hope to god is not going to be), then a lot more needs to be done to the system to give people alternatives, or we'll end up in the same mess we are in right now. This includes (Beyond 2041 +) DRL U, Platform and transfer improvements at Yonge-Bloor, St George, Spadina, A second Downtown line, Jane, Kipling, Kennedy LRT lines, 3rd of 4th tunnels to the Yonge line (for express services), etc.

Out of curiosity, which capital rapid transit projects do you believe would be of higher priority than Sheppard West but lower than the DRL? Obviously, SOGR, expanding and increasing the reliability of the streetcar and bus networks are there, but they're not rapid transit capital projects.

 

[TransitBart]

I'm not in disagreement with its construction either, in theory. But I certainly wouldn't consider it a high priority. There are a lot of other lines that will give us far more bang-for-the-buck that should be considered far more important.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

There is more than one back-hoe in the city... Can anyone say simultaneous?

 

[Amare]

There is more than one back-hoe in the city... Can anyone say simultaneous?

Not Toronto politicians, that's for damn sure.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Not Toronto politicians, that's for damn sure.

Just get metrolinx to build something while the TTC builds something else.

 

[TransitBart]

Not Toronto politicians, that's for damn sure.

Walking and chewing gum have been challenges for thirty years.

 

[smallspy]

Notice how I did not include the DRL (Short, Long, and U) because that project should have been built decades ago.

It's irrelevant whether you think that it should have been built decades ago or not - we can't read your mind. On a written forum, you need to articulate your thoughts so that we all know what you are thinking or what you are planning.

Out of curiosity, which capital rapid transit projects do you believe would be of higher priority than Sheppard West but lower than the DRL? Obviously, SOGR, expanding and increasing the reliability of the streetcar and bus networks are there, but they're not rapid transit capital projects.

Well, how far-and-wide a list do you want? The DRL is in my mind the number one priority, but that view, while widely shared, is certainly not even unanimous on this forum. And number two would be the Yonge North extension.

But beyond that? How wide a net do you want to cast? Almost the entirety of the Transit City projects, save for Jane. RER and electrification. The Kingston Rd. busway. There are a good number of projects outside Toronto that are well worthwhile as well, if we want to go that far. To me, all of those projects provide far more bang-for-the-buck than does extending the Sheppard Line west.

There is more than one back-hoe in the city... Can anyone say simultaneous?

There's lots of back hoes in this City.

Can we pay for all of them, though?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[muller877]

Let me get this straight - are you suggesting that the cheapest route is the best option for any transit route?

Because there's a lot of experts - and I'm talking about the guys who get paid to do this, not the guys like us on boards like this who are simply over-informed laypersons - who strongly, strongly disagree with that.
.

I think a lot of people in this city and many on urbantoronto only look at the demand. There needs to be a full cost/benefit analysis of all transit options.
- what is the capital cost?
- what is the incremental operating costs (net of additional revenue)
- what is the current ridership
- what is the growth in ridership

It's too bad many skip over the first two

 

[Leo_Chan]

I think a lot of people in this city and many on urbantoronto only look at the demand. There needs to be a full cost/benefit analysis of all transit options.
- what is the capital cost?
- what is the incremental operating costs (net of additional revenue)
- what is the current ridership
- what is the growth in ridership

It's too bad many skip over the first two

Now this is where politics gets in the way. If every projects had a value and benefit for money study to the same standard, where every new study is equivalently comparable to all the other studies, then there would be facts. Whether one chooses to ignore the facts and say deserves another is a completely other issue.

Though, I feel like 1,3,4 are looked it. It's 2 that isn't.

 

[Streety McCarface]

It's irrelevant whether you think that it should have been built decades ago or not - we can't read your mind. On a written forum, you need to articulate your thoughts so that we all know what you are thinking or what you are planning.



Well, how far-and-wide a list do you want? The DRL is in my mind the number one priority, but that view, while widely shared, is certainly not even unanimous on this forum. And number two would be the Yonge North extension.

But beyond that? How wide a net do you want to cast? Almost the entirety of the Transit City projects, save for Jane. RER and electrification. The Kingston Rd. busway. There are a good number of projects outside Toronto that are well worthwhile as well, if we want to go that far. To me, all of those projects provide far more bang-for-the-buck than does extending the Sheppard Line west.



There's lots of back hoes in this City.

Can we pay for all of them, though?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

RER is in the works and it's a Metrolinx project so that's out.

Wasn't there a proposal a while back to extend the 502/503 to Birchmount? If that is the case, why build a busway?

Is Jane really more valuable than a Sheppard West line? The Jane bus seems to do well as is, and there aren't missing connections up there; you have Eglinton and finch west as alternatives. Jane only increases capacity. Don't get me wrong, it should be built, but that over a subway line that might make Yonge Line operations much more efficient?

Yonge North isn't a city of Toronto project, and although it will bring in high usage, it will seriously f*** up the Yonge line, even with a fully built DRL.

The original question was about rapid transit expansion (subways, grade separated LRT, ICTS, etc). Of course, there will be little projects that can more easily have better returns for value, but every megaproject isn't going to have high returns of value in the short term.