[xtremesniper]

Ha! Explains a lot

When all is said and done some credit must be given to Metrolinxs. I hope know one underestimates how complex any of these projects are along with the huge amount of political pressure involved that they MUST deal with. It's so easy for us to say this would be the perfect line (even if it probably is) and scold all these agencies for not developing them in the most optimal way. At the same rate it is unfortunate.

Well that being the case do you have any idea why/how York region didn't object in any way to the TTC running/maintaining/collecting all proceeds from both subway expansions when it will eliminate the need (or shorten) many of their routes. Like I said it'll be more of an issue when the stretch along Yonge develops (in the way of lost potential ridership).

Well, do we even know for sure that the YRT is not going to get a cut of the revenue from ridership entering stations north of Steeles?

Maybe they'll get a discount off the contracts for the north/south bus routes that the TTC operates in York Region.

 

[RedRocket191]

From York Region's perspective, my sense is that having the TTC deal with everything means that they don't have to create their own subway division. They were willing to give up some control in order to save some cash. With most riders on Yonge South migrating to the subway it also means that they can run fewer buses and save money that way.

The only drawback to this setup is that under the current fare system it means a YRT rider bound for a destination on Yonge between Steeles and Highway 7 won't be able to use the subway without a second fare, and they may not be able to go as far south as Finch without a second fare at all (if the remaining 99 bus is cut back to Steeles). This is less of an issue on the Spadina extension, but I suppose they felt it was a price they were willing to pay to keep things simple.

 

[taal]

haha, maybe ... but from articles I saw it always refer to the TTC running everything ... if that were the case it's very likely they would get all revenue.

I'm not sure, it would be nice to get to the bottom of it though!


When you stop and think about it - the hole scheme of the TTC operating the subway no matter where it expands WOULD work. But at the same rate you need to remember the TTC generates a big chunk of it's revenue from the yonge line subway. For the YRT, the Yonge line (Viva Blue) is also a big revenue maker.

Not sure.....

 

[taal]

From York Region's perspective, my sense is that having the TTC deal with everything means that they don't have to create their own subway division. They were willing to give up some control in order to save some cash. With most riders on Yonge South migrating to the subway it also means that they can run fewer buses and save money that way.

The only drawback to this setup is that under the current fare system it means a YRT rider bound for a destination on Yonge between Steeles and Highway 7 won't be able to use the subway without a second fare, and they may not be able to go as far south as Finch without a second fare at all (if the remaining 99 bus is cut back to Steeles). This is less of an issue on the Spadina extension, but I suppose they felt it was a price they were willing to pay to keep things simple.

Is the plan not to have some sort of fare integration already in place before either of these subway lines open?

Being from Toronto I'd prefer the TTC run it all But at the same rate I think a rider going from Yonge and Steeles up to Hi-way 7 should not need to pay twice ... as they do not today!

But this creates a lot of complications as who does the revenue go to?

Won't think actually be a BIG deterrent to any short transit trips that people might take even TODAY! They'll need to pay double fare just to go from Yonge and Steeles to Hi-way 7 and Bayview?

 

[RedRocket191]

Yes there is a plan for fare integration but:

a) that plan was only created in the RTP (long after the Spadina Extension deals were made) and;
b) As the phantom fare report says, the TTC might put the kybosh on the plan.

What I'm saying is this:

The plan is for all of the subway to be in the TTC fare zone. If I take a bus to Richmond Hill Centre and I'm going to, say, Yonge & Clark, then I'll either have to pay a second fare to take the subway or wait for the infrequent 99 Yonge South bus. I strongly believe that trips should cost the same for the same distance travelled regardless of the mode or company I use, so this is a big issue for me.

 

[taal]

Wow it's a huge issue!

When you stop and think about it of course the TTC wouldn't object to this. Think - the TTC doesn't really have an increasing customer base in the 416 - yes improved transit does help but you get my point

They can now pick up and drop people off in York region going to York region!

Wow - I'd sign that deal in a heart beat.

 

[Disparishun]

If I take a bus to Richmond Hill Centre and I'm going to, say, Yonge & Clark, then I'll either have to pay a second fare to take the subway or wait for the infrequent 99 Yonge South bus. I strongly believe that trips should cost the same for the same distance travelled regardless of the mode or company I use, so this is a big issue for me.

I have this deep faith that, should the Yonge Extension ever actually start getting built and, sometime afterward, should it ever actually finished getting built, then the overwhelming good sense of a non-bizarre pricing system will become so transparent that it will not be possible to avoid fare integration.

But, then, I am clearly an optimist.

 

[xtremesniper]

Oh man that is a huge problem. I've always wondered what they were planning to do in regards to fares, but hearing that the entire line will be in TTC fare zone is disheartening, to say the least.

I agree though, I hope that by the time the line opens (not any time soon) some developments with integrated fares would have come into play. I'm tired of this Steeles Ave border BS that is discouraging hundreds of people from taking transit every day. It would do them both good if they just got rid of it and dealt with the fares another way.

 

[realtycoon]

I'm tired of this Steeles Ave border BS that is discouraging hundreds of people from taking transit every day. It would do them both good if they just got rid of it and dealt with the fares another way.

They should look at what YRT/Viva does with their zone fares and impliment a "Grey" zone for the fare zone change area. (See Viva in Oak Ridges for how it works)

 

[xtremesniper]

They should look at what YRT/Viva does with their zone fares and impliment a "Grey" zone for the fare zone change area. (See Viva in Oak Ridges for how it works)

Yeah, that would be a good alternate to the current setup, at least. But I don't think even that is THE solution. But yeah it would be good for what we have right now.

 

[Ansem]

More Go Trains to downtown would be more efficient than extending the subway to a.....Go train station?!?!

6.8 Billions?
That's at least DLR and Sheppard combined

 

[xtremesniper]

More Go Trains to downtown would be more efficient than extending the subway to a.....Go train station?!?!

Not quite that simple. It's a YRT terminal first, GO station second. Not only that, but just adding more trains to the line wouldn't really solve anything because GO is naturally more expensive than TTC by a long shot, so people will still flock to Finch Station and take the subway anyway. It doesn't solve much.

 

[Ansem]

Not quite that simple. It's a YRT terminal first, GO station second. Not only that, but just adding more trains to the line wouldn't really solve anything because GO is naturally more expensive than TTC by a long shot, so people will still flock to Finch Station and take the subway anyway. It doesn't solve much.

So if they had a train every 10 mins or less they would rather take more time to go to Finch than take the GO?

 

[xtremesniper]

So if they had a train every 10 mins or less they would rather take more time to go to Finch than take the GO?

Some people value money more than time, and it's really not that bad. Most people take the subway because they don't want to go to Union anyway. If you're going to Dundas or Bloor or College, you're going to have to pay for the TTC anyway once you're down there. No benefit.

 

[taal]

With fare integration being completely homgonized across the system ... every single user or at least the majority would take GO.

If the service was frequent and reliable.

Regarding the fare integration there are two problems here:
1) Go as mentioned is quite a bit more expensive - the price of a TTC ride from RHC should probably be slightly more and GO slightly less.
2) Don't forget, for a lot people the end destination is NOT Union, hence the need for another albeit short subway trip.

But I don't think it's GO OR TTC ... it should be both if the demand calls for it.

Also, there will be a lot of people who don't go all the way down to Union on the TTC. Moreover, once development picks up there will be people going up to RHC in the morning!