Lets do some calculations:

Subway average speed is 40 km/h, so a 22.5 km trip from RHC to Union will take about 30 to 35 minutes.

Regional express average speed is 80 km/h, so a 29.5 km trip from RHC to Union will take 22 minutes (blue 22!!!).

If GO runs every 15 minutes or better, and there is fare integration so either mode costs the same then the GO option will be better for people going into the core. It will still be faster to go to Union and backtrack if you're bound for the central business district.

But, don't forget that the law says that Langstaff Gateway has to see the same sort of densities as Yonge / Eglinton and North York Centre. The subway will be the best way to connect those three and should be built for the medium length trips - say RHC to Yonge & Eglinton.
 
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Ansem said:
So if they had a train every 10 mins or less they would rather take more time to go to Finch than take the GO?
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Don't be fooled into thinking that GO trains are always faster. The Richmond Hill line has the slowest average operating speed and least direct route among all GO lines. Currently, Langstaff to Union is a 35 minute trip. However, If the route was as direct as the other GO lines, had express service, and the trains travelled as fast, this would be cut down to 10 minutes!

Due to the unique inefficiency of the Richmond line, one would save at least 10 minutes by boarding Langstaff subway station vs. Langstaff GO station and going to their office in the financial district. If you need to go anywhere north of King, you can forget GO entirely purely based on travel time.

Regional express average speed is 80 km/h, so a 29.5 km trip from RHC to Union will take 22 minutes (blue 22!!!).
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FYI, due to sharp curves in the Don Valley, the operating speed of the Richmond Hill line is about 40 km/hr between York Mills and Union and can never be faster.
 
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RedRocket191 said:
Lets do some calculations:

Subway average speed is 40 km/h, so a 22.5 km trip from RHC to Union will take about 30 to 35 minutes.

Regional express average speed is 80 km/h, so a 29.5 km trip from RHC to Union will take 22 minutes (blue 22!!!).

If GO runs every 15 minutes or better, and there is fare integration so either mode costs the same then the GO option will be better for people going into the core. It will still be faster to go to Union and backtrack if you're bound for the central business district. But, if you're going to Yonge + Eglinton or North York Centre (places to grow growth centres) then the subway is the best way to connect it with the Langstaff Gateway growth centre.
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Yes, but you must remember that not all trips from RHC will be destined to go to Union. Many will use the subway to shop and do chores even within the 905. I seem to recall a nice plan to densify and pedestrianize Yonge north of Steeles.
 
urbanboom said:
Yes, but you must remember that not all trips from RHC will be destined to go to Union. Many will use the subway to shop and do chores even within the 905. I seem to recall a nice plan to densify and pedestrianize Yonge north of Steeles.
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That's the point i was trying to make actually. The subway should be used if you're going from RHC to as far as, say, Eglinton, but GO + backtracking will be faster if you're going to the CBD.
 
RedRocket191 said:
That's the point i was trying to make actually. The subway should be used if you're going from RHC to as far as, say, Eglinton, but GO + backtracking will be faster if you're going to the CBD.
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But only if fare integration is in place. If not, then it's not worth the cost, at least in my opinion.

Heck, I used the subway to get downtown even all the way from Markham. Why? Because I used the TTC for things other than just going to and coming from work, so buying a GO pass and a TTC pass was not even a thinkable option. So, I drove or got dropped off at Finch and took the subway. It's what many people opt to do until things are fixed up.
 
I'm going by the "fare integration by 2012" part of the RTP. It's a policy issue that's not dependent on Presto.
 
xtremesniper said:
By cost I meant the cost of commuting (GO + TTC fare) not the cost of implementing fare integration.
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If we improve the fare system then you wouldn't pay two fares. The subway option would cost the same as the GO+subway option.
 
RedRocket191 said:
But, don't forget that the law says that Langstaff Gateway has to see the same sort of densities as Yonge / Eglinton and North York Centre.
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Urban Growth Centres in the 905 only have to have 200 people and jobs per square km. The ones in Toronto have to have 400.
 
But from what I recall what was planned around RHC was 500!
 
The point is that the "farmfield" stereotype isn't true. Compared to the rest of the suburbs, these growth centres will have the same order of density as Yonge and Eglinton.
 
Chuck said:
Due to the unique inefficiency of the Richmond line, one would save at least 10 minutes by boarding Langstaff subway station vs. Langstaff GO station and going to their office in the financial district. If you need to go anywhere north of King, you can forget GO entirely purely based on travel time.
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Yep. And it's not just that GO will *not* be faster for people going anywhere north of, say, King (or within X minutes of walking distance), it's that most people using the Yonge extension won't even be getting on at RHC, so GO isn't really an option for any of them, anyway. They certainly won't travel north to RHC, take the GO train, and then backtrack north at Union. There are no GO stations between Langstaff and Old Cummer. Backtracking means waiting for another train at Union, and the subway going south will be more frequent than the GO train. If the GO trains start running quicker than every 10 minutes (like the TTC's "frequent service"), they may stop sticking to a schedule, and variability can lead to longer travel times if timing vehicles becomes impossible. Even if the Yonge extension is of limited use for all the people beyond RHC because of GO lines, that doesn't reduce the need for the extension to serve Cummer and Steeles and Clark and Royal Orchard and Longbridge.

People always say "let GO serve the 905" but GO is of almost no use for someone at Yonge & Clark.
 
There's no question that the GO line serves a much more narrow trip pattern than those who would be served by a subway. The way I see it, it's there, it has the potential to divert 8000 people or more per hour away from the subway if upgraded properly, so why not? An end-to-end trip will be faster by GO and you'll break even if your wait + subway trip is less than 10 minutes.

The lakeshore line seems to operate very well with the frequency of trains it runs, so i don't see why it's not possible to go better than every 10 minutes.

There are bigger priorities than upgrading the GO line, but it can help deal with the triple convergence that will occur even after the DRL is built.
 
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