adma
Superstar
Unfortunately, the die was case when post-amalgamation Toronto adopted the motto "Diversity Our Strength". Now, there's no getting out of it.
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King of Kensington
Senior Member
Where in the 416 area code is "90%+ WASP?"
King of Kensington
Senior Member
Coltaine79
Active Member
I dunno.
There's a big chunk of our east end where the dominant language is either Tamil or Chinese.
How well-integrated are those folks into the idea of "Canada"?
King of Kensington
Senior Member
There are neighborhoods in many US cities that are literally 99% African American.
There is no neighborhood in Toronto where one ethnicity dominates anywhere close to that extent. They may be associated with a particular ethnicity, but usually it's a mix of people.
There is no neighborhood in Toronto where one ethnicity dominates anywhere close to that extent. They may be associated with a particular ethnicity, but usually it's a mix of people.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I disagree that it is overrated. We are second to Miami for percentage of residents born outside the country and once the distribution of nationalities is factored in we are at the top. Anyone who has spent any time on the TDSB website would realize that this diversity spreads across the whole city. The cities you mention are nowhere near as diverse and their populations are more segregated by neighbourhood.
Your distaste for the idea of diversity is showing.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
Toronto is not as racially integrated as American cities like San Francisco and Chicago?
Are you really that clueless? You need to get out more often. Chicago is one of the most racially divided cities in North America. Go south of Chinatown and you will see nothing but black people for miles and miles. Go to Andersonville and you will only see white people. I was in a shopping centre in North Chicago and the food court was full of people, yet I did not see one single black, Indian or Chinese person. Not one! Where can one see that in Toronto? I was also the only white person on the subway car, once I went south of Chinatown. Yes, the ONLY white person on the train. When I got off at the end of the line, the station was full of people waiting for buses and again, I was the only person who was not African-American. The city of Chicago even set up a sting operation to catch real estate agents who refused to sell houses to African Americans in north Chicago. It was not very successful. (neither is The Cabrini Green redevelopment, unlike Regent Park) Give Toronto some credit when it deserves it.
The same thing applies to SF. Go to The Castro and tell me how many non-whites you see? There are many neighbourhoods in SF that have no black people. Those 2 cities are not even in the same league as Toronto, when it comes to ethnic integration. It's funny how people travel, yet they don't really see what's going on. Chicago's problems with race go way back, do some reading. There is NO city in North America that is as racially mixed as Toronto is. Yes, other cities have multiculturalism but many times the different races keep to their own part of the city. Toronto has had no major problems with racial issues. You can ride a subway north, south, east or west and you will see people of all colours and nationalities. Even in NYC there are many neighbourhoods that are of one single race. People can be very protective of their neighbourhoods in NYC. (especially in The Bronx and Brooklyn)
People don't realize how unique Toronto, and Canada in general, is.
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taal
Senior Member
This can be said about every large city in North America, including New York and the like ... there are enclaves, people of similar social background group together.
And I, living in the area, pretty much disagree completely with your comment about Y&E, yes there are more white people then downtown ... but check out pubs throughout the city ... generally speaking more white people go to 'pubs' then non white people, this can be said about most cities ... less say London, where pubs are to them our Milestons / Moxies / ... and the like ... and check out these restaurants 'our so called white restaurants' tend to have a lot of diversity in more central areas ... not so much in suburbs.
It's really the same as other cities ... downtown is extermely mixed ... other areas tend to be a little bit less diverse ... take NYCC for the likes ...
lordmandeep
Banned
Isn't it true that a majority of people moving downtown lately are white people???
urbandreamer
recession proof
^Maybe. But actually the last couple of years I've seen increasing signs of diversity. For example, Roncevalles/High Park area. Last night walking home from my gf's place I passed an old church that's been converted to a mosque on Boustead. Interestingly enough--or logically enough--there's been an increase in muslims buying houses in the surrounding area. My 'hood--the highrise "ghetto" of H.P. Village, is very diverse--majority Russian/Serbian still of course (they are not WASPs btw, never confuse us Englishmen with a Russian!
)--but increasingly many Iranians, Turks, Mexicans, Chinese etc. The Junction itself is quite diverse as well.
Judging by my relatively recent tours of Brampton--your town lordmandeep?--I would argue Toronto is vastly more diverse! They call it Browntown for a reason!
Now, pockets of the eastside and midtown are obviously dominated by one racial group--Jews to the west of Avenue Rd to about the Allen, and white Anglo-Europeans to the east to about Laird Drive. But so what? It's like Brampton was traditionally Irish Catholic, and now is very Punjabi; Markham was very much a mennonite farming community, now very Chinese; it changes! 100 years from now Brampton could be totally different, once the East Indian community becomes fully integrated and open to intermarriage with other ethnic groups, isn't so tied to their religion, etc. Just like how 90% of us Wasps never go to church, aren't in fact the P in wasP anymore, and are open to other cultures! (So open in fact, our fore-fathers encouraged diverse immigration! Take that Japan, India or China!)
)--but increasingly many Iranians, Turks, Mexicans, Chinese etc. The Junction itself is quite diverse as well. Judging by my relatively recent tours of Brampton--your town lordmandeep?--I would argue Toronto is vastly more diverse! They call it Browntown for a reason!
Now, pockets of the eastside and midtown are obviously dominated by one racial group--Jews to the west of Avenue Rd to about the Allen, and white Anglo-Europeans to the east to about Laird Drive. But so what? It's like Brampton was traditionally Irish Catholic, and now is very Punjabi; Markham was very much a mennonite farming community, now very Chinese; it changes! 100 years from now Brampton could be totally different, once the East Indian community becomes fully integrated and open to intermarriage with other ethnic groups, isn't so tied to their religion, etc. Just like how 90% of us Wasps never go to church, aren't in fact the P in wasP anymore, and are open to other cultures! (So open in fact, our fore-fathers encouraged diverse immigration! Take that Japan, India or China!)
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Coltaine79
Active Member
I agree that I came across as nitpicky, but what I posted is obviously colored by my own experiences.
My point is that while I understand socio-economic stratification, I don't understand why there would be ethno-racial stratification. Especially when I take the case of individuals who were brought up and educated in Canada, they still choose to live in the stereotypical "immigrant neighborhood", i.e. Brampton for Sikh Indians, Scarborough for Tamils, etc.
BTW my comment about Y/E wasn't just with regards to a pub, lol. In fact in the 20-floor rental building I lived in for a year, there were only 2 dark-skinned residents. Now, I'm not saying that I had issues with that, or that I had to deal with racism or something but it was certainly quite different from the "mixed" environments I've lived in the past.
How about Davisville/MtPleasant? i.e. the Davisville neighborhood
Coltaine79
Active Member
Judging by my relatively recent tours of Brampton--your town lordmandeep?--I would argue Toronto is vastly more diverse! They call it Browntown for a reason!
Yeah that's sorta my point. Whereas "outsiders" might assume that most of the Browntowners are recent immigrants/refugees or whatnot.... actually there's quite a lot of second generationers who choose to live there, even though they don't have to, because in terms of language/lifestyle/employment/finances they've perfectly integrated into the Canadian ideal... maybe they just like the cheap houses
urbandreamer
recession proof
^It takes about 4 generations to truly feel attached to your new identity, imo. Look at the Americans--about 4 generations into the country, they choose their own identity. Or Quebec--by 1760, about 4 generations into the area--the New France community was distinctly different than the French in the mother country.
lordmandeep
Banned
Brampton is full of Indians but they are not all first generation. Even so I have heard rumors something, like 10,000 foreign students from India have come to Brampton in less than 2 years.
Many second generation immigrants still choose to stay and live in Brampton.
It depends what areas you go to. My area is still mix but 50% are Indian. There are areas which are almost 80-90% Indian though, mostly suburbs built in the last 3-4 years.
Interestingly the number of houses being built in Brampton lately has crashed dramatically. The population is still growing but it does not seem everyone moving here is moving into a brand new 3000 sq feet home. Brampton is notorious for its illegal basements dwellings.
Many second generation immigrants still choose to stay and live in Brampton.
It depends what areas you go to. My area is still mix but 50% are Indian. There are areas which are almost 80-90% Indian though, mostly suburbs built in the last 3-4 years.
Interestingly the number of houses being built in Brampton lately has crashed dramatically. The population is still growing but it does not seem everyone moving here is moving into a brand new 3000 sq feet home. Brampton is notorious for its illegal basements dwellings.
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dahusbandofbath
Active Member
This is true! Plus when you consider the fact that half of all Americans (I have no Cdn stats) live within 50 miles of where they were born, you see people's tendency to stick to the familiar. Why move to a different neighbourhood when you're comfortable where you are? My wife was born and raised in Toronto by Portuguese parents. She's far more comfortable in English than in Portuguese. We now live in the east end because of where we both work. However, if it weren't for work, she'd just as soon still live in the St. Clair/Dufferin area, nearer to her parents and her old haunts. We'll have Chinatowns and Little Indias for a long time to come, no doubt. That doesn't mean those communities aren't adapting to Canadian culture and mores.
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