[Fad225]

^ haha no its the University of Waterloo's School of Planning's design studio and digital lab

 

[CDL.TO]

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

That's why you don't rejoin it! Birchmount North, Birchmount South. It's that simple.

17 Birchmount doesn't have high enough a riderhsip to warrant the split. You'd be inconveniencing more passengers than you'd help with the detour. Anyone remembering the fiasco that was 268 Warden North? Anyone?! This is a very silly argument. I never suggested a single subway platform would stretch on for one third of a kilometre, but rather if the entrence/exit points were strategically located at the ends of each platform by the time passengers acsend two stairwells and a mezzanine they'll be pretty close to the intersections I mentioned, like a half-block away. Tell me one BD stop that exceeds that proximity.

Yes, but anybody riding from UTSC, let alone Morningside Heights, would still find it far faster to go to STC to catch the RT (especially if the RT were replaced by a subway) than to go on a streetcar all the way down to Eglinton and then all the way west to Kennedy.

Wouldn't the majority travel flow be geared southwest towards downtown?

Which portion would be constructed underground?

How do you propose running subways at grade along 13.8 kms of Don Mills Rd? A DRL would be too extensive if it included Don Mills, with far apart spaced stations in the core to offset the extra costs it'll take take to bring a subway all the way up Don Mills to Steeles. As such it would lose whatever potential value it has to make inter-city travel seamless. Preferably I'd like to see the TTC build a loop line that encircles the core; the rail corridor but along some of the major interior arteries as well like King or Queen. It doesn't have to be existing subway technology or completely above or underground but if possible someone should look into it.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

17 Birchmount doesn't have high enough a riderhsip to warrant the split. You'd be inconveniencing more passengers than you'd help with the detour. Anyone remembering the fiasco that was 268 Warden North? Anyone?! This is a very silly argument. I never suggested a single subway platform would stretch on for one third of a kilometre, but rather if the entrence/exit points were strategically located at the ends of each platform by the time passengers acsend two stairwells and a mezzanine they'll be pretty close to the intersections I mentioned, like a half-block away. Tell me one BD stop that exceeds that proximity.

Wouldn't the majority travel flow be geared southwest towards downtown?

How do you propose running subways at grade along 13.8 kms of Don Mills Rd? A DRL would be too extensive if it included Don Mills, with far apart spaced stations in the core to offset the extra costs it'll take take to bring a subway all the way up Don Mills to Steeles. As such it would lose whatever potential value it has to make inter-city travel seamless. Preferably I'd like to see the TTC build a loop line that encircles the core; the rail corridor but along some of the major interior arteries as well like King or Queen. It doesn't have to be existing subway technology or completely above or underground but if possible someone should look into it.

The 268 was a YRT route that went all the way up to 16th - it has nothing to do with Birchmount's situation. Birchmount buses would be able to get to a Warden & Sheppard in about 1 minute; 800m is hardly a significant "detour" - all buses going to STC make at least a 400m detour, for example.

Most UTSC students do not live downtown...I wouldn't be surprised if a majority live north of the 401. I doubt UTSC will generate more than a few thousand rides a day along the Morningside line...Ellesmere would be a better option, funnelling in all the bus routes from west of Morningside. People coming from York or Durham won't take the line, and many will continue to drive. York U is worth running a transit line to because it's 4 times the size of UTSC.

A lot of the Don Mills line could be at-grade (or slightly elevated/trenched) once it hits Overlea...the road is quite wide and mostly bordered by strips of grass. I'd cut 'n cover it around Lawrence, though.

An extensive DRL that included Don Mills would be wonderful.

 

[Redroom Studios]

yep, Don Mills would really work well with any kind of hard transit line with its continuous high density population all the way up to Steeles. My vision for an upgraded subway system would have lines spreading out in a somewhat fan-like configuration out from the core. With this in mind perhaps Weston Rd would be a likely candidate in the west end. I am still not sold on Sheppard as a needed east-west connection. I like the loop idea... in my system the loop would be completed along Steeles, running from Weston Rd to Don Mills initially, linking up with the top end of the Spadina line at York U and the Yonge extension at Steeles. Future phases would expand the fan shape further east and west....

(P.s. - I got my urban planning degree in a cracker jack box!)

 

[DENTROBATE54]

The 268 was a YRT route that went all the way up to 16th - it has nothing to do with Birchmount's situation. Birchmount buses would be able to get to a Warden & Sheppard in about 1 minute; 800m is hardly a significant "detour" - all buses going to STC make at least a 400m detour, for example.

I'll just take a guess and assume a parallel bus route will accomany this new subway. With gaps as gi-normous as Warden to Allenford you'd need a conveyor belt the side of four football fields to get across. See why I opposed this extension, you claim it's for local accessibility yet you put stops miles apart. I hope by the time they do build Sheppard East they reconsider the planned stop locations. Even a one minute detour of the Birchmount bus is illogical when Allenford is, no matter what you claim, walking distance away. If the mall built an underground branch to lead into the subway would commuters even care that they have to walk a little to surface? What will ever satisfy your bloodlust for ultra-convenient subways in one aspect while denying accessibility for everyone else in another ?

Most UTSC students do not live downtown...I wouldn't be surprised if a majority live north of the 401. I doubt UTSC will generate more than a few thousand rides a day along the Morningside line...Ellesmere would be a better option, funnelling in all the bus routes from west of Morningside. People coming from York or Durham won't take the line, and many will continue to drive.

That's not the point. You're telling me you'd invest in building a SRT style route through the hydro corridor and river valley that exists between Neilson and SGC when STC-UTSC on the 38 is only 15 mins or less? Several students in fact take courses at both UTSC and St Geogre campuses and probably wish the 116E ran all day. I don't think the TC line all the way to Morningside Heights is necessary, but UTSC does make for a logical terminus.

An extensive DRL that included Don Mills would be wonderful.

I agree both DRL and Don Mills need to exist in some fashion but not as parts of the same line.

I like the loop idea

What you're suggesting sounds like a redux of the VIVA system. It's silly how YRT routes that system. If the Purple Line routed continuosly to Martin Grove instead of detouring to York U I could've shaved a half-hour or more off my commute. It took me over 3 hours once to get home (I live in Brampton) on the 77/1, and just thought what if VIVA ran stright across. Your plan and alot of these ideas can and should be in the realm of express buses instead of too-expensive subway territory.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I'll just take a guess and assume a parallel bus route will accomany this new subway. With gaps as gi-normous as Warden to Allenford you'd need a conveyor belt the side of four football fields to get across. See why I opposed this extension, you claim it's for local accessibility yet you put stops miles apart. I hope by the time they do build Sheppard East they reconsider the planned stop locations. Even a one minute detour of the Birchmount bus is illogical when Allenford is, no matter what you claim, walking distance away.?

Warden and Allanford would actually be 1200m apart, meaning nothing along Sheppard is more than 500m away from a station entrance (600m, but it's reduced by platform length and stairs, etc.). If Birchmount is walking distance from Allanford, why must there be a stop there? By running Birchmount to Warden, you can spend a minute on the road to save a minute on the subway.

That's not the point. You're telling me you'd invest in building a SRT style route through the hydro corridor and river valley that exists between Neilson and SGC when STC-UTSC on the 38 is only 15 mins or less? Several students in fact take courses at both UTSC and St Geogre campuses and probably wish the 116E ran all day. I don't think the TC line all the way to Morningside Heights is necessary, but UTSC does make for a logical terminus.

No, I wouldn't invest in anything to serve UTSC...it's not worth it. I'm just saying more people would get to UTSC via an Ellesmere line than a Morningside line. Obviously, an Ellesmere line in the TransitCity model would be an Ellesmere-York Mills-Wilson-Albion line, not just a line from STC to UTSC.

I agree both DRL and Don Mills need to exist in some fashion but not as parts of the same line.

A DRL that runs up Don Mills is clearly a superlative option.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

If Birchmount is walking distance from Allanford, why must there be a stop there? By running Birchmount to Warden, you can spend a minute on the road to save a minute on the subway.

The stop should be midway in between Birchmount and Allenford such that by the time passengers ascend stairwells radiating east and west of the station platform they'll be no further from the intersections than a BD stop is from Bloor or Danforth. Why am I repeating myself ?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And the bus wouldn't connect with the station at all à la Ellesmere...wonderful!

 

[CDL.TO]

It's 400m from Birchmount to Allanford and a subway platform is 150m long, that's quite a bit more than stations are north of Bloor or Danforth.

 

[rpgr]

Alternatively they could tear down Agincourt mall and all the surrounding strip malls (that small pharma plus / chinese super market and that crap plaza on Birchmount with the Shoppers Drug Mart and prono store) and integrate it into a revitilization of the area that includes a smarter layout (with underground retail) for a complete transit hub completer with non-ghetto retail.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

 

[marcus_a_j]

Alternatively they could tear down Agincourt mall and all the surrounding strip malls (that small pharma plus / chinese super market and that crap plaza on Birchmount with the Shoppers Drug Mart and prono store) and integrate it into a revitilization of the area that includes a smarter layout (with underground retail) for a complete transit hub completer with non-ghetto retail.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

I like it!! They can start by taking down that new building right at the NW corner of Sheppard/Kennedy (my vote is for an implosion with more dynamite than is needed, that thing is hideous)

 

[DENTROBATE54]

And the bus wouldn't connect with the station at all à la Ellesmere...wonderful!

Whatcha talkin' 'bout Willis ?

It's 400m from Birchmount to Allanford and a subway platform is 150m long, that's quite a bit more than stations are north of Bloor or Danforth.

As a point of reference the station platfrom could be midway between the two intersections. Note where Neddle Dr (north-south alignment) and Dempster St (north-south alignment) are, that length a few metres north could be the location of the station platforms. Similarly from Gordon Ave to just east of Riedmount can be platform length for Agincourt Stn. Mezzanine levels built out to the Kennedy and Birchmount buses would be no more of a hindrance than other colossal suburban terminals (Wilson, York Mills, Don Mills, Downsview, Main Street, Warden, Kennedy and of course FINCH!).

 

[CDL.TO]

So asking someone who exits at the far end of the train from the exit they need to walk 300m to catch their bus isn't unreasonable to you?

 

[ShonTron]

Mezzanine levels built out to the Kennedy and Birchmount buses would be no more of a hindrance than other colossal suburban terminals (Wilson, York Mills, Don Mills, Downsview, Main Street, Warden, Kennedy and of course FINCH!).

I wouldn't wish a Wilson-type walk or layout on any new station (or any station for that matter - it's time for that station to meet Mr. Bulldozer).

Main Street and Downsview aren't that bad at all for getting from train to street or bus. Don Mills isn't that bad either.