I've posted this in april***
That's TTC argument but let's compare...really
Toronto:2,503,281
Chicago:2,836,659
TORONTO
Daily ridership ***just to give us a rough idea**
2007-2008
Yonge-University-Spadina
672,390 (avg. weekday)
32 Stations and 30.2Km
Bloor-Danforth
484,000 (avg. weekday)
31 Stations and 26.2 Km
Sheppard
45,860 (avg. weekday)
5 Stations and 5.5 Km
Scarborough RT
43,770 (avg. weekday)
6 Stations and 6.4 Km
CHICAGO
Red Line
approx. 230,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
34 Stations
37.7 KM
Blue Line
approx. 147,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
33 Stations
55.7 KM
Brown Line
approx. 90,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
28 Stations
18.3 KM
Orange Line
approx. 59,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
17 stations
20.1 KM
Pink Line
approx. 26,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
22 Stations
18 KM
Purple Line
approx. 31,000 (avg. weekday boardings including Purple Express)
19 Stations
24 KM
Yellow Line
approx. 5,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
2 Stations
5.1 KM
*******************************************
Is it me or our useless low ridership Sheppard Subway has more ridership than Pink, purple and Yellow line?
Sheppard a 5 station and 5.5KM has more ridership than a
22 station line with 18 KM (Pink) or (Purple) 24 KM and 19 stations. Imagine a Complete Sheppard line.
May I add that the trains have similar capacity?
Not bad for a line:
-That Short
-Not Going downtown (All Chicago lines goes downtown)
-Questionable station emplacements
A complete Sheppard line would have more ridership than their orange line and close in on the top 3 of chicago busiest lines...easily
You want to believe an EA that has Miller written all over it, that's your business but I wont let a guy politically motivated to get reelected screw up the whole Sheppard East corridor just because he wants to show Scarborough and North York (who have no love for the guy) that he cares about them by showing off pictures of him at the construction site. Subway is more complicated and takes longer to built. He need to show that he did ....SOMETHING... for them.
Keep you argument with the 5000 number,
If you compare this line with chicago's network, that puny incomplete line would be succesful by their standards. A complete Sheppard line would challenge many busy line around the world.
May I remind you that the EA standards are not universal and they were use to stuff that ridiculous project down our throats. You can make number say anything you want them to say when you manipulate criterias.
There nothing stoping the TTC to keep the 4 train sets and increase them over time.
The montreal blue line started with a 3 train set closing at 11pm. Now its a success. It closes at 1am and have 6 train set.
By your logic that line would have NEVER been built...
CMON
The One thing I have seen between TTC Vs. USA, most transit lines do not use TTC numbers to say this is BRT or LRT or Subway or Heavy Rail. There are lines design for LRT using 10-15,000/day that have come on line in the last 5 years.
Then, TTC has been the only one who use the farebox ratio to say what gets built unless some big wig said otherwise.
Getting money from the Fed's in the US is no big deal compare to our Fed's regardless who is in power.
At the same time, taxpayers pay a % of the sale's tax to fund a project or the system and must be voted on to increase it or build a line.
A fair number of the transit systems are now having problems how to maintain them due to decline in sale tax revenue as people are not spending like they used to do.
If one sits down and draw up a plan on building a subway network in Toronto as well an operation budget for what they like to see, how do you do it and maintain the existing system without huge fare increases and high property taxes?
It makes no different if you run a one car or 6 train as the operation cost will be the same. The only different will be capital cost of the extra cars as well the type of headway.
Like it or not, cost of tunneling is out weight by surface 4 to 1.
If you want to change it, it time to look at an elevated system for faster service that equal to subway. Does not have to be Mark III.
The other thing with TTC thinking and will use York here also, there is to stepping stone to move from bus to HR. It buses or HR and nothing between. TTC used the comment that there a subway there now for both Spadina and Yonge to say we must build onto the existing system well Sheppard was a sink hole for $$ and therefore it must be LRT. Ridership will be higher on the Sheppard line than either of the other 2 after they open.
Now, how many riders come into Toronto vs Chicago.?
At the same time, how many rail lines services Chicago compare to Toronto?
Both cities have the lake behind them, but what is the grid system like going out of the core as well transit lines?? What about the highway system??
There are big differences between both cities.
I have said in the past that I see the Sheppard Subway going from Pickering to the Airport, but not at this time. Until you have a ridership over 100,000 daily or the Billions to spend on building on it now without hardship on others or parts of the city, an LRT is the way to go at this time.
I have said the same thing for the Spadina and the Yonge extension. Why should 45,000 riders get class 1 service while a few hundred thousand get nothing at all??
The only reason Sheppard is seeing high numbers as there is no fast route to the BD or the core in the east end other than GO that only runs a few trains on weekdays. Almost a 45 minute ride from Kennedy and Steeles to the BD on the Kennedy bus.