[TheTigerMaster]

For the past few pages, we have been talking about ELEVATED or GRADE-SEPARATED transit on Eglinton West. IT was not part of Stintz's plan.



It seems kind of strange that Stintz wants a pile of money for OneCity and then as the money starts to come in, she need to rework the plan. It would just be an indication of her constant flip-flopping.

I don't recall Stintz specifying if it would be grade separated. I wouldn't expect that to happen until the various studies on thr alignment are completed by either the TTC or Metrolinx.

 

[andrewpmk]

I don't recall Stintz specifying if it would be grade separated. I wouldn't expect that to happen until the various studies on thr alignment are completed by either the TTC or Metrolinx.

I'm pretty sure Stintz intended that it be at grade light rail like Miller did.

"One City" is a really bad plan. It was laughed at by the media when it was released. It has big problems with it - if you are spending this much money you ought to build subways; it ignored several of the GO lines like Lakeshore; the Jane LRT makes no sense because so much of it is too narrow to put LRT in reserved lanes on the surface; putting both subway and LRT on Don Mills makes no sense especially since the DVP between Eglinton and Highway 401 is notorious for congestion; and there is no demand for LRT at the Toronto Zoo.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

if you are spending this much money you ought to build subways

Really...

 

[ehlow]

I don't recall Stintz specifying if it would be grade separated. I wouldn't expect that to happen until the various studies on thr alignment are completed by either the TTC or Metrolinx.

I'm fine with elevated or in a trench in the Richview corridor, but even if it's on the street in a ROW like the east side, it should be fairly fast. I see a major intersection every 1km, and minor intersections half way between those (sometimes there is none like from Scarlett to Royal York). At the minor intersections, a vehicle on Eglinton would usually see green. The LRVs would go about the same speed as cars do now driving along Eglinton with no traffic. Last time I did that, it was pretty fast, it's a wide, fast, suburban road.

I'd also like to see it extended into Mississauga along or near the transitway to serve the people who work in those office parks. However I think buses on the transitway and Eglinton West will do fine for a while, to me DRL & GO improvements are probably higher priority.

 

[andrewpmk]

I'm fine with elevated or in a trench in the Richview corridor, but even if it's on the street in a ROW like the east side, it should be fairly fast. I see a major intersection every 1km, and minor intersections half way between those (sometimes there is none like from Scarlett to Royal York). At the minor intersections, a vehicle on Eglinton would usually see green. The LRVs would go about the same speed as cars do now driving along Eglinton with no traffic. Last time I did that, it was pretty fast, it's a wide, fast, suburban road.

I'd also like to see it extended into Mississauga along or near the transitway to serve the people who work in those office parks. However I think buses on the transitway and Eglinton West will do fine for a while, to me DRL & GO improvements are probably higher priority.

The purpose of making Eglinton grade separated would be to run trains more frequently i.e. every 1.5 minutes in rush hour, instead of every 3 minutes. This allows for expanded capacity to handle future population and employment growth and prevents overcrowding from being a problem.

The Mississsauga Transitway could have been built without grade separation to cut costs, but it wasn't. Given how little extra it costs to build an above ground, grade separated line, it is foolish to not do so.

 

[ehlow]

The purpose of making Eglinton grade separated would be to run trains more frequently i.e. every 1.5 minutes in rush hour, instead of every 3 minutes. This allows for expanded capacity to handle future population and employment growth and prevents overcrowding from being a problem.

The Mississsauga Transitway could have been built without grade separation to cut costs, but it wasn't. Given how little extra it costs to build an above ground, grade separated line, it is foolish to not do so.

It's hard for me to imagine it being over capacity with either 60m or 90m trains going every 3 minutes, considering the Yonge line has frequencies of about every 3 minutes during rush hour, and this stretch of Eglinton really doesn't have much around it.

Really, so a bus using the transitway would never cross an intersection when say going from the 403 to the city center transit bus terminal? How does it get on and off the 403? Thanks

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm pretty sure Stintz intended that it be at grade light rail like Miller did.

"One City" is a really bad plan. It was laughed at by the media when it was released. It has big problems with it - if you are spending this much money you ought to build subways; it ignored several of the GO lines like Lakeshore; the Jane LRT makes no sense because so much of it is too narrow to put LRT in reserved lanes on the surface; putting both subway and LRT on Don Mills makes no sense especially since the DVP between Eglinton and Highway 401 is notorious for congestion; and there is no demand for LRT at the Toronto Zoo.

That's not why the subway is going on Don Mills to Sheppard. It's going there to intercept the buses routes before they go the YUS line. And also Jane has very high ridership, but a subway would cost too much.

 

[ehlow]

That's not why the subway is going on Don Mills to Sheppard. It's going there to intercept the buses routes before they go the YUS line. And also Jane has very high ridership, but a subway would cost too much.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but to stir up discussion, any subway on Jane, Keele, Bathurst, Dufferin, Victoria Park, Don Mills, the DRL route, College, Dundas, Queen or King, 5-6km long with around 5 stations like Sheppard would instantly fill up with at least double, if not quadruple the amount of riders that Sheppard does right? (double being 100 thousand a day, quadruple 200k). No future development needed. Especially the ones going East-West south of Bloor, I'd expect they would provide much better service and take tons of streetcar riders, and the N-S ones would be attractive as well.

 

[andrewpmk]

It's hard for me to imagine it being over capacity with either 60m or 90m trains going every 3 minutes, considering the Yonge line has frequencies of about every 3 minutes during rush hour, and this stretch of Eglinton really doesn't have much around it.

Really, so a bus using the transitway would never cross an intersection when say going from the 403 to the city center transit bus terminal? How does it get on and off the 403? Thanks

The two main subway lines run every 2 minutes 21 seconds during rush hour and have 6-car trains. There is a large capacity gap between this and shorter LRT trains every 3 minutes.

With more modern signalling systems you can get as low as 90 second intervals between trains.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Eglinton will run 90 second trains on the underground portion.. the surface portion will run every 3 minutes, but that is way more than enough for the demand. 3 minute frequency with 90 meter trains results in a capacity of 10,000 PPHD, while demand is supposed to be around 3,000. The underground portion is supposed to be around 20,000 PPHD max, with demand around 6,000. The subway running T1 trains at 2 minute 21 second intervals provides for 26,000 PPHD. unless you forsee Eglinton breaching that 20,000 mark, it won't be over capacity, and trust me, it won't hit that. Bloor today only hits around 23-24,000 PPHD, and I simply cannot see Eglinton getting anywhere near the bloor level of usage.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The real issue is the convergence at Eglinton Station with large volumes of people transferring that at the same time instead of trickling in.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but to stir up discussion, any subway on Jane, Keele, Bathurst, Dufferin, Victoria Park, Don Mills, the DRL route, College, Dundas, Queen or King, 5-6km long with around 5 stations like Sheppard would instantly fill up with at least double, if not quadruple the amount of riders that Sheppard does right? (double being 100 thousand a day, quadruple 200k). No future development needed. Especially the ones going East-West south of Bloor, I'd expect they would provide much better service and take tons of streetcar riders, and the N-S ones would be attractive as well.

Definitely. Jane has 40,000 riders I believe, that's the high end for LRT. Victoria Park much less, around 25,000, but still the buses are busy. I think a Jane subway way more busier then Sheppard. Problem is now that Finch West is locate at Keele Finch, people will argue a Jane subway is not needed. I disagree, I would personally like the DRL to go up Jane or Kipling Ave (much less bus ridership, but serves Rexdale) to give RT access to lower middle class/poorer neighborhoods. As well, I think the DRL east should end at Seneca College (Don Mills-Finch). Finch East has 27,000 riders which would be enough to sustain a stop with the college.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Eglinton will run 90 second trains on the underground portion.. the surface portion will run every 3 minutes, but that is way more than enough for the demand. 3 minute frequency with 90 meter trains results in a capacity of 10,000 PPHD, while demand is supposed to be around 3,000. The underground portion is supposed to be around 20,000 PPHD max, with demand around 6,000. The subway running T1 trains at 2 minute 21 second intervals provides for 26,000 PPHD. unless you forsee Eglinton breaching that 20,000 mark, it won't be over capacity, and trust me, it won't hit that. Bloor today only hits around 23-24,000 PPHD, and I simply cannot see Eglinton getting anywhere near the bloor level of usage.

I will bet you if the DRL west only does up to bloor people will want it to go Mount Dennis. Then Metrolinx will announce the DRL goes to Mt Dennis. And let's assume Eglinton West, The Malvern LRT, get built as well, I think it will come very close to capacity faster then we would want to believe.

 

[rbt]

Definitely. Jane has 40,000 riders I believe, that's the high end for LRT.

You believe the capacity limit for a 300 foot LRT in a semi-private ROW is similar to the current 60 foot bus that serves Jane in mixed traffic; or did I misinterpret that statement?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You believe the capacity limit for a 300 foot LRT in a semi-private ROW is similar to the current 60 foot bus that serves Jane in mixed traffic; or did I misinterpret that statement?

Misinterpret. LRT's capacity limits are shorty north of 40,000, I was just saying the Jane LRT if built would be busier and more successful then most.