doady
Senior Member
Okay, I get it. Bus ridership should not be be used to plan for building rapid transit. It makes sense now.
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Okay, I get it. Bus ridership should not be be used to plan for building rapid transit. It makes sense now.
Disparishun
Active Member
No, it doesn't sound like you've gotten it.
jn_12
Senior Member
A Go Transit Fantasy map for the Niagara Region.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...216,-79.153061&spn=0.243976,0.617294&t=h&z=11
Anyone that knows the politics of Niagara, inter-city transit has been near impossible to get off the ground. I've long felt that GO would be the best option as it takes away a lot of the inter-city politics that has caused this project to stall. Also, in terms of service and expertise it makes sense that Niagara would want GO to play a role in regional transit.
By no means are stops and routes set in stone, but I feel they're based on patterns that are somewhat realistic and unique to the Niagara Region. I've included two N-S routes, 1 circle route, 1 E-W route. I would suspect that the circle route would be the highest frequency, once per hour at least. The E-W route across the top of the region and the two N-S routes would be every 2 hours. Thorold and Pelham are close enough to St Catharines and Welland respectively that they don't really warrant stops. Wainfleet and other rural areas aren't addressed. To be honest, I'm not sure there's an argument for even one round trip per day. I've included the Go Train as a seasonal tourist option as we saw this summer.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...216,-79.153061&spn=0.243976,0.617294&t=h&z=11
Anyone that knows the politics of Niagara, inter-city transit has been near impossible to get off the ground. I've long felt that GO would be the best option as it takes away a lot of the inter-city politics that has caused this project to stall. Also, in terms of service and expertise it makes sense that Niagara would want GO to play a role in regional transit.
By no means are stops and routes set in stone, but I feel they're based on patterns that are somewhat realistic and unique to the Niagara Region. I've included two N-S routes, 1 circle route, 1 E-W route. I would suspect that the circle route would be the highest frequency, once per hour at least. The E-W route across the top of the region and the two N-S routes would be every 2 hours. Thorold and Pelham are close enough to St Catharines and Welland respectively that they don't really warrant stops. Wainfleet and other rural areas aren't addressed. To be honest, I'm not sure there's an argument for even one round trip per day. I've included the Go Train as a seasonal tourist option as we saw this summer.
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dunkalunk
Senior Member
My Transit City
Features:
-Interlining of Sheppard Subway and Scarborough Extension from Downsview to Vaughan Centre
-Interlining of Sheppard Subway and extended Danforth Subway from rail line to McCowan Road
-Interlining of Eglinton LRT with the DRL, creating a loop
-Airport RT with fares paid for by the Airport. Transfer Required at Renforth. Baggage checking facilites at both Woodbine and Renforth
Features:
-Interlining of Sheppard Subway and Scarborough Extension from Downsview to Vaughan Centre
-Interlining of Sheppard Subway and extended Danforth Subway from rail line to McCowan Road
-Interlining of Eglinton LRT with the DRL, creating a loop
-Airport RT with fares paid for by the Airport. Transfer Required at Renforth. Baggage checking facilites at both Woodbine and Renforth
Dan416
Senior Member
I wouldn't mind having both Sheppard and YUS serving the York extension for now, but in future I believe Sheppard should continue on Sheppard West terminating at the airport.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
To be honest, I don't see much demand along Sheppard for the stretch to the Airport, and expecially none past Jane.
What I'd do is interline Sheppard with the Spadina extension to York University station. That way, YUS trains could short turn at Downsview like they do now, and Sheppard trains would run the full route. This allows a seamless route to York University and the Finch LRT, which I think can be quite valuable in the future.
For an Airport route, I'd seriously like to revive the GO ALRT route. The Finch hydro corridor would mean a rather inexpensive route, which'll be a pretty big draw for such a long route. I don't think that it would overlap service with Sheppard, but Sheppard should definitely be built first. After Sheppard is totally finished, Metrolinx could assess the need for another, more regional route.
What I'd do is interline Sheppard with the Spadina extension to York University station. That way, YUS trains could short turn at Downsview like they do now, and Sheppard trains would run the full route. This allows a seamless route to York University and the Finch LRT, which I think can be quite valuable in the future.
For an Airport route, I'd seriously like to revive the GO ALRT route. The Finch hydro corridor would mean a rather inexpensive route, which'll be a pretty big draw for such a long route. I don't think that it would overlap service with Sheppard, but Sheppard should definitely be built first. After Sheppard is totally finished, Metrolinx could assess the need for another, more regional route.
Dan416
Senior Member
After going to modify my map to extend Sheppard to the airport, I noticed that Sheppard actually ends not too far from Downsview. So in my map I just continued the line in a straight line where you would expect Sheppard Ave to be, thereby hitting Woodbine, and then veering south to link up with Eglinton at the airport.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
It was my thought that people would use articulated busses on the 407 transitway in combination with transit priority lanes on the 400, 401, and 409 to access the airport. Or, a mythical York Sub GO line.
Fred.S
Active Member
MY Fantasy Map
Link to higher resolution
Thought I'd throw in my own TTC subway fantasy map...
Not much different than what most people would like to see, but this one is to scale, with Toronto's outline marked by the dashed with line.
Note Richmond Hill Centre station would actually be further north than it is on the map with an extra station or two in between (I was too lazy to redo the map size after I figured out that mistake).
I think Eglinton and the DRL could be done as LRT instead of subway (although my map says subway). But I'm thinking real LRT (a la Edmonton or Calgary) not streetcar ROW.
Link to higher resolution
Thought I'd throw in my own TTC subway fantasy map...
Not much different than what most people would like to see, but this one is to scale, with Toronto's outline marked by the dashed with line.
Note Richmond Hill Centre station would actually be further north than it is on the map with an extra station or two in between (I was too lazy to redo the map size after I figured out that mistake).
I think Eglinton and the DRL could be done as LRT instead of subway (although my map says subway). But I'm thinking real LRT (a la Edmonton or Calgary) not streetcar ROW.
nfitz
Superstar
Looks interesting ... but you have subway lines interlining along two end parts of routes ... which would tend to have lower demand than the centre parts that are not interlined. Surely it is more likely that one route would simply terminate at the other - unless they were to separate again somewhere.
More likely I think would be the scenario where a route is common through the centre, but then splits in 2 at the edge ... which you see in most cities, but not here in Toronto.
More likely I think would be the scenario where a route is common through the centre, but then splits in 2 at the edge ... which you see in most cities, but not here in Toronto.
Dan416
Senior Member
Link to higher resolution
Thought I'd throw in my own TTC subway fantasy map...
Not much different than what most people would like to see, but this one is to scale, with Toronto's outline marked by the dashed with line.
Note Richmond Hill Centre station would actually be further north than it is on the map with an extra station or two in between (I was too lazy to redo the map size after I figured out that mistake).
I think Eglinton and the DRL could be done as LRT instead of subway (although my map says subway). But I'm thinking real LRT (a la Edmonton or Calgary) not streetcar ROW.
I agree with your map almost 100%. I think having Sheppard running up to VCC would be an okay interim solution. But I would want it to eventually continue west to the airport via Woodbine.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
The part of your DRL line which runs along Eglinton should act as an express line between Mississauga and downtown. Have one stop at Weston, one stop connecting to Mississauga Transit, and then the airport. All of the other stops south of Eglinton can stay. It would speed up the trip between Mississauga and downtown, or the airport and downtown.
Fresh Start
Banned
Wow, great minds think alike.
I posted this earlier today in the Eglinton thread:
I also think that the DRL and Eglinton subways should share the same track in-between the airport and Mount Weston before they branch off their separate ways.
Further Details:
- So that passengers know which train goes where, on the front and side panels of vehicles there could be LED displays saying: EASTBOUND TO WYNFORD HTS VIA EGLINTON or EASTBOUND TO WYNFORD HTS VIA DOWNTOWN.
- Monut Dennis Stn would be the major interchange stop for both the Georgetown-Guelph GO rail corridor and the Jane LRT line. Jane trams could connect to this station via a portal which begins on Jane north of Weston Rd and tunnels beneath that street to the subway. There's a Queen's Quay like station in the tunnel where the truncated 35 Jane bus service via Emmett would also let on/off riders (with proper ventilation of course).
- South of Eglinton the follows three rail corridors to Bloor: Weston-Galt, Midtown and Bradford. This is done to better bring mass transit accessibilty to the Junction area and run close to Dupont/Lansdowne where brownstone properties are being redeveloped into condos.
- I chose Bloor-Lansdowne for the interchange rather than Dundas West because the area is in the process of redevelopment as well and GO connections could just as well be made at Mt Dennis, plus a station here would make a possible GO Station for the Barrie Line accessible to the DRL.
- The alignment henceforth takes an unconventional alignment through the innercity running through developable lands (mainly parks and commercial zones) as to avoid mass expropriation. Using a deep tunnel bore (up to 30 m underground) through City-owned land means NIMBYs pose minimal threat to halting construction. And vibrations at that depth will barely register.
- I chose to target the big money destinations of the core where transit-users always congregate: Dufferin Mall, Rua Acores, Little Italy, Kensington Market/Toronto Western Hosp, Chinatown, Queen & John, Skydome/CN Tower, CBD, St Lawrence, George Brown College, Ryerson University, Cabbagetown, Regent Park and 2 stops in Riverdale (Gerrard/Broadview and Gerrard/Pape).
- This leaves justifible space available for a future subway line across Queen or King Streets, which's relevance is lost if the DRL is aligned further south.
- DRL East more or less follows all conventional subway plans to Eglinton EXCEPT- add-in stop at Mortimer, and Thorncliffe Park Stn is now south of Overlea in East York Town Ctr backlot which is more central to the community ergo easier walking distance to/from area apartments.
- Instead of having the two subways end rather abruptly at Don Mills, have them route continuously through one another such that eastbound DRL trips become westbound Eglinton trips and vice-versa.
- The Midtown corridor is used as right-of-way between Leslie/Eglinton and DVP/Wynford, the easternmost stop on the line where GO conections to the Richmond Hill and Midtown-Seaton GO corridors would be possible.
Were more funds to become available I'd also recommend looping the Sheppard and B-D Lines via the Scaborough Centre for a one-seat ride option.
Dan416
Senior Member
brainfreezed and Fresh Start, SOS--Save Our Subways is currently recruiting new members. Are you interested?
Fred.S
Active Member
True, although I think more short-turning would even things out on the routes a bit, and the interlining would be more of a convenience for people. But yea, the economics might be better terminating the Eglinton service at Weston and Sheppard at Downsview. Although really, this setup gives the option of interlining or not, so things can be changed easily depending on service patterns.
For sure, though I sort of did the map with the idea of "what would be a good realistic network that could replace transit city without being too much more costly". But yea I even did another version of the map with that exact route for Sheppard, and the DRL going northwest under Weston Rd and meeting up with it.
Yea, forgot about that Mississauga BRT on Eglinton... Still though, the Richview area is fairly dense with potential for more development, I wouldn't want to short-change the area with a lack of stations. As well, you're taking some riders off the bloor line (which can get pretty brutal during rush hour) so I think it's good to have stations at all the major cross-streets.
Looks good. Pretty funky route downtown though. I think it would slow down the DRL somewhat and make it much more costly just to serve areas where the streetcar wouldn't take that much longer to get to the core. I am a big fan of the DRL-Eglinton combo, though I do live closeby to Dundas West Stn, so im a bit biased by getting my quick route downtown and to the airport...