[nfitz]

We need the funds while they are willing to write blank cheques.

No one is willing to write blank cheques. The province has pledged to cover cost overruns. The budget for the games is about $1.4-billion. If the City of Toronto was to try to suddenly build a $2-billion subway and expect the province to cover it as an overrun, McGuinty would not pay it.

Can we avoid the transit-porn and have a realistic discussion?

 

[whatever]

Depends on the alignment ... I doubt there will be a station much south of Queen (King I note isn't much south of Queen around there). It will still be a bit of a hike.

But surely DRL is not part of what's being considered for the PanAm games ... it's only 6 years, which might be just enough time to build a subway if you start digging soon; but not enough to do the pre-assessment, ESA, design, and construction.

They could easily build it in six years if they did a railway alignment, which would work better for the athletes' village anyways. They could either run it on the surface and then have it go underground as it approached Union, or dig it out via cut-and-cover. They wouldn't have to build the whole thing, even the Cherry to Exhibition chunk would be a huge asset. It wouldn't actually function as a relief line (that could come later), but it would greatly speed up transit between the village and the Skydome/Exhibition where so many of the events are going to be held, and by connecting with Union it would make it far easier for athletes to get everywhere else in the city.

 

[Ansem]

No one is willing to write blank cheques. The province has pledged to cover cost overruns. The budget for the games is about $1.4-billion. If the City of Toronto was to try to suddenly build a $2-billion subway and expect the province to cover it as an overrun, McGuinty would not pay it.

Can we avoid the transit-porn and have a realistic discussion?

upgrade means, instead of building that overprice streetcar, you put a little bit on top and build the subway instead...

still expect the government to say no? Metrolinx already took upon themselves to study Sheppard west subway even if it's more expensive. Some of the members of the board wants subway on Eglinton.

Its not a matter of whether or not the province would say yes or know...
Its a matter when will someone or the population will demand subway

The subway is already there and we have new trains coming leaving us with extra temporary trains we could still use... The tunnel will be build with subway specs on Eglinton

The streetcar lines are expensive because we're starting from scratch...

The government was pro transit, they basically said yes to whatever was being submitted, Miller choose to only submit streetcars.

If he had proposed Sheppard, Eglinton,Rt to subway,...wanna bet he would have said yes?

 

[nfitz]

They could easily build it in six years if they did a railway alignment, which would work better for the athletes' village anyways.

Surely a temporary shuttle service on GO similiar to the London 2012 Olympic Javelin service would make more sense?

There's no way the assessment and design for a new subway service could be completed in time for construction. Why not just build the planned and funded Waterfront East LRT instead?

 

[lead82]

While I would love to see a new subway line constructed downtown, I highly doubt with our EA and design processed that we'd be able to actually build it in 6 short years. The Spadina extension has been funded for 3 years now, and only now are we slowly starting to see contracts being tendered and station designs coming out. This extension is not even going to be ready by 2015. Last I hear it was now pushed back to 2016 as the opening date.

Instead of the new subway line, what we should really push for is better transit integration between TTC and GO. If the Lakeshore line could get 15 - 20 minute service frequency all day, that would be good enough to service most of the downtown games locations. All we'd need is a station at Cherry street, and Presto system up and running on major downtown TTC stations.

 

[Ansem]

Surely a temporary shuttle service on GO similiar to the London 2012 Olympic Javelin service would make more sense?

There's no way the assessment and design for a new subway service could be completed in time for construction. Why not just build the planned and funded Waterfront East LRT instead?

wasn't the EA for Sheppard to STC already done before...

 

[whatever]

There's no way the assessment and design for a new subway service could be completed in time for construction. Why not just build the planned and funded Waterfront East LRT instead?

I'd say build the Waterfront East LRT as well, because it would serve a different purpose both during and after the games. As for the DRL, everyone knows it needs to get built and probably sooner rather than later. Given that, why not accelerate plans to build the segment of it that would be a huge boon to the games?

 

[nfitz]

wasn't the EA for Sheppard to STC already done before...

I thought it was only to Victoria Park. However what does that have to do with building the DRL along the railway tracks from Union to the Donlands, which is what we were discussing here.

 

[whatever]

And incidentally, this is going to really light a fire under the Union Station redevelopment. As long as they're tearing the station apart and rebuilding it from the inside out wouldn't this be a good time to incorporate a new set of platforms for the DRL?

 

[nfitz]

upgrade means, instead of building that overprice streetcar, you put a little bit on top and build the subway instead...

For the fourth time, can you please take your anti-Transit City fetish to the appropriate thread.

 

[Ansem]

I thought it was only to Victoria Park. However what does that have to do with building the DRL along the railway tracks from Union to the Donlands, which is what we were discussing here.

For DRL, there's no way it's going to be ready on time. It's not on the table.

I like to think as the Pan AM as a simulation or practice. If Toronto seriously want the Olympic games in the years 2020, they will realize after having the mess we'll get downtown in 2015 that

1-DRL is vital to an olympic bid

2-Something will have to be done with the downtown streetcar route...
Dundas,King, Queen should be
A)one ways
B)streetcar with ROW

3-Oups...maybe Eglinton full subway from the airport is not a bad Idea after all

 

[nfitz]

For DRL, there's no way it's going to be ready on time. It's not on the table.

Yes, I'd heard that mentioned somewhere.

2-Something will have to be done with the downtown streetcar route...
Dundas,King, Queen should be
A)one ways
B)streetcar with ROW

Now there's an excellent idea. Perhaps it's time to roll out that King experiment. There's plenty of time to do some work to make the King car work before 2015, and it will run right into the West Donlands by then

3-Oups...maybe Eglinton full subway from the airport is not a bad Idea after all

Why when the Airport-Pearson train will be running by then, and goes straight to Union; the service could temporarily be extended to the Cherry with a bit of thought.

 

[Platform 27]

I just finished reading the bid book.

The bottom line for transit is that there are no real promises made as part of the detailed bid plan. As others have noted above, though, the constraints of the games means planned construction is going to be under the gun to get finished in time.

Athletes, Coaches, Officials and Media will be moved entirely by road using 700 dedicated private vehicles using temporary private lanes. Public transit's role in the games will primarily relate to spectator transport.

The Cherry Street streetcar line abuts directly against the Athlete's Village, and appears in the site plan. I think that's the one safe bet for a project, (albeit a small one) that jumps forward in terms of priority.

Union Station is described as the Games' "public transportation hub" on the venue maps, so I presume that ensures that the clock will be ticking to get the rebuild completely finished in time for the games... delays and scaffolding will not be permissible.

The Union-Pearson Rail Link merits the below mention:

A fixed-rail link from the airport to downtown Toronto – the location of the Pan American Village, Media Centre, Host Hotel and many sport and cultural venues – will be in operation by the start of the Games (construction
slated to begin in 2009).

 

[nfitz]

The Cherry Street streetcar line abuts directly against the Athlete's Village, and appears in the site plan. I think that's the one safe bet for a project, (albeit a small one) that jumps forward in terms of priority.

Shouldn't it already be completed by then? In 2007, the TTC was talking about it being operational in 2010.

Waterfront East (Union to Cherry) was 2013 wasn't it?

 

[Whoaccio]

I don't really think any permanent investments are warranted with this. Blu22 and some kind of Cherry LRT seem logical enough, but other than that I don't see much point in anything else. We should probably dedicate highway space to run shuttle buses to the suburban events, but that is temporary.

Would it be possible to run a GO train just from Exhibition to Union? The Harborfront "LRT" frankly sucks at dealing with rush hour passenger volumes, using it for the PanAm games would be a disaster. I'm not sure what the track requirements would be, but just dedicating a few GO trains to go back and forth between Union and Exhibition could be an easy fix.