Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Waterloo's comparison shouldn't be Toronto in any case. It should be other North American mid-size cities which have adopted LRT.
|
|
|
- Thread starter Midtown Urbanist
- Start date
innsertnamehere
Superstar
In that case it would still be fairly low. 13k would put it between Charlotte's LRT system and the Riverline LRT which services rural New Jersey, making it the 3rd lowest ridership LRT network excluding diesel services and streetcars. 18k would only move it above the Buffalo LRT, making it 4th worst.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Except it wouldn't, the notion that total ridership for a light rail system defines the success of the system is a false narrative. Many who analyze system ridership fail to account for the total length of the system they are comparing. At the worst projection, the light rail system sees 1,100K passengers per mile, which puts its ridership between DART's light Rail and SEPTA's subway surface lines. At the best case scenario, it's ridership would be around 1,525 passengers per mile, meaning it would be between TRAX light rail (lower, SLC) and the Seattle streetcar.
This line will almost certainly outperform DART, the Pittsburg light rail, the New Orleans streetcars, Sunlink, St. Louis' Metrolink, Sacramento's RT Light Rail, Baltimore's light rail, VTA light rail, the TIDE, and Cleveland's light rail line, and most streetcar systems on its opening day, and will likely also exceed the ridership of SEPTA's subway surface lines, Denver's RTD, and Salt Lake City's TRAX on opening day in the summer. Come the fall service period, if ridership increases to 25K PPD, that ridership could be higher than the Seattle Streetcar, Charlotte's light rail, MAX in Portland, the San Diego trolley, and the Valley metro rail in Phoenix.
doady
Senior Member
Waterloo probably did not build light rail just for the opening day anyways. 13,000 to 18,000 for first day would be fine.
Even though the York U subway extension opened in 2017, the TTC subway ridership increased by 21% in Q1 2019 compared to Q1 2018, while the bus ridership decreased 14%. Overall TTC ridership is 9% higher in Q1 2019 compared to Q1 2018.
Riding public transit is a habit. It takes time for people to change their habits. If we rush to judge the York U extension based on 2017 or even 2018 numbers of course it is a failure. But the 2019 numbers tell a much different story. So don't make the same mistake with the Waterloo LRT.
Even though the York U subway extension opened in 2017, the TTC subway ridership increased by 21% in Q1 2019 compared to Q1 2018, while the bus ridership decreased 14%. Overall TTC ridership is 9% higher in Q1 2019 compared to Q1 2018.
Riding public transit is a habit. It takes time for people to change their habits. If we rush to judge the York U extension based on 2017 or even 2018 numbers of course it is a failure. But the 2019 numbers tell a much different story. So don't make the same mistake with the Waterloo LRT.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
:format(webp)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2019/07/09/ttc-buses-and-streetcars-get-stuck-in-traffic-too-often-transit-planers-want-to-change-that/_1_yorku_busway.jpg)
TTC vehicles get caught in gridlock too often. Should the King Street pilot project be replicated?
Spurred on in part by improvements to streetcar service on King St. downtown, Toronto transit planners are eyeing significant changes that would give transit vehicles priority over other road users on high-volume routes across the city.
By any chance have the surface route stats been released?
Allandale25
Senior Member
This article may have posted at the time but I followed up with the TTC to learn more and here is their response:
Google Drive link with Excel attachment:
drive.google.com
Google Drive link with Excel attachment:
CSC 309359.xlsx
drive.google.com
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
The document is via request.This article may have posted at the time but I followed up with the TTC to learn more and here is their response:
Google Drive link with Excel attachment:
CSC 309359.xlsx
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Sorry try again I updated the link.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
This is really excellent data. Thank you.This article may have posted at the time but I followed up with the TTC to learn more and here is their response:
Google Drive link with Excel attachment:
CSC 309359.xlsx
Also, in one of the reports from the article, I found this:
There seem to be a lot more properties than I previously thought under development along the Sheppard Corridor, and more surprisingly, Victoria Park and Eglinton.
This map is even more interesting, I just wish we had access to the GIS map associated with this data.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-Q1-Ridership-APTA-1.pdf
Apparently, the streetcar ridership grew 82% to 486,800 PPD over the entire network during the first quarter of 2019. Does anyone know how this happened? I don't know how growth like this makes sense.
Also, can we petition to rename the 501L to the 507 since we're bringing the 508 back?
Apparently, the streetcar ridership grew 82% to 486,800 PPD over the entire network during the first quarter of 2019. Does anyone know how this happened? I don't know how growth like this makes sense.
Also, can we petition to rename the 501L to the 507 since we're bringing the 508 back?
blaixx
Active Member
Here is the APTA ridership each month from October 2018 to March 2019 in millions: 5.612, 5.605, 4.935, 11.936, 11.576, 14.530. Did ridership really triple from December to March? Not sure what's going on with their numbers.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
More like increase by 70-80%. Streetcar ridership tends to be lower in the fall months because people can bike, and low in December because of the holidays. The better comparison is Jan-Mar 2018 vs Jan-Mar 2019, that's where things are really questionable.
Steve X
Senior Member
If you look at it, streetcars went up 18 million but bus ridership dropped 16 million. Perhaps this is due to the busitution last year?
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
This could potentially explain things, but where did those additional 2 million passengers come in, and did streetcar ridership really increase by 16 million passengers annually over the course of 3 years? Assuming King's ridership actually increased by 25K PPD and that increase was seen every day (not just every weekday), that only makes up 9.125 M additional rides annually. Besides, King was always run with streetcars (whether it was the 504 or 514), so those would have been counted in the streetcar category regardless.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
IIRC a bunch of APTA's TTC numbers changed as the TTC had been providing linked trips, while APTA measure unlinked trips. The TTCs number skyrocketed by like 70% once they started providing accurate numbers. Not sure if this is the explanation here or not though.