[gabe]

When will other nations start to get serious about Saudi Arabia's gross human rights abuses?

Saudi Arabia crucified a man in Mecca while aggressively calling out Canada over human rights

• The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia executed a man by crucifixion in the holy city of Mecca on Wednesday amid trying to attack Canada on its human-rights record.
• Saudi Arabia frequently uses capital punishment for crimes like homosexuality or anti-government activities, though crucifixions are rare.
• It has lashed out at Canada, sometimes harshly, since Ottawa last week called for the release of jailed women's rights activists in the kingdom.
• Saudi Arabia has restricted travel, medical access, and student scholarships to Canada while using its state-owned media to depict the country as unjust.
  
  https://www.businessinsider.com/sau...=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=desktop

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And of course, the latest:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-bus-carrying-children-hit-by-airstrike-icrc

We have acted far, far more aggressively against states responsible for atrocities such as the above than fuzzing over mere tweets.

And from the Globe:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...es-canada-on-oil-supplies-in-row-over-jailed/

Well, well, well...I am not sure why we need to allow import of Saudi oil while they assume they can just mess with their side of the trade unilaterally.

AoD

 

[Skeezix]

I'm annoyed at some of the nonsensical op-ed pieces we are now seeing, pointing out the "pitfalls" of "Twitter diplomacy". What the authors really mean is that Canada, if it was to intervene at all on behalf of Badawi and other activists, should have done so more quietly and/or with more diplomatic double-speak. In other words, don't stand up for human rights with language that is clear, unambiguous and public.

 

[Skeezix]

I blame Trudeau for his 'tough-guy' tweet baitingTrump after Trump departed the G10 meeting in Quebec CIty.

That simply did not happen. Only the most delicate of flowers thinks Trudeau's language after the G10 was "tough guy" baiting (whatever that is).

 

[pman]

While Saudi Arabia is reprehensible, I’m at a loss to understand English Canada’s obsession with delivering moralizing sermons and toothless orders to (some) states we deem insufficiently virtuous. At best we get tagged as an irritating, sanctimonious scold - Dean Acheson’s characterization of Canada as the stern daughter of the voice of God being a good example. At worst, and the latest spat with Saudi Arabia seems to fall in this camp, we sacrifice Canadian jobs. In no case do our smug lectures actually change anything. And I get it, I really do. The latest clusterfuck is entirely about bolstering the Liberals’ feminist brand in advance of the next election. It’s smart for Trudeau. Sucks for Canada, though.

 

[BurlOak]

While Saudi Arabia is reprehensible, I’m at a loss to understand English Canada’s obsession with delivering moralizing sermons and toothless orders to (some) states we deem insufficiently virtuous. At best we get tagged as an irritating, sanctimonious scold - Dean Acheson’s characterization of Canada as the stern daughter of the voice of God being a good example. At worst, and the latest spat with Saudi Arabia seems to fall in this camp, we sacrifice Canadian jobs. In no case do our smug lectures actually change anything. And I get it, I really do. The latest clusterfuck is entirely about bolstering the Liberals’ feminist brand in advance of the next election. It’s smart for Trudeau. Sucks for Canada, though.

Two things:
(1)
If Canada wants to pick on a country, or exercise our moral authority, a few things should be considered:
Is this consistent with Canada's (or this governments) prior actions?
Is Saudi Arabia the worst offender?
Is Saudi Arabia likely to change due to our pressure?
Is Canada more powerful (economically, diplomatically) than Saudi Arabia?
Will Canada's allies back us?
Has Canada secured backing of allies in advance of action against Saudi Arabia?
Is Saudi Arabia likely to have allies that would back them and go against Canada?

It appears that Canada has failed in every one of these points, and that is why things are going so badly for us.

(2)
Since everything that Trudeau does is virtue signal, why not merge this thread with the Trudeau thread?
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/pm-justin-trudeaus-canada.24514/

 

[buildup]

That simply did not happen. Only the most delicate of flowers thinks Trudeau's language after the G10 was "tough guy" baiting (whatever that is).

It did happen. The minute Trump got on the plane, Justin put his tweet out about not being bullied.

 

[buildup]

I'm annoyed at some of the nonsensical op-ed pieces we are now seeing, pointing out the "pitfalls" of "Twitter diplomacy". What the authors really mean is that Canada, if it was to intervene at all on behalf of Badawi and other activists, should have done so more quietly and/or with more diplomatic double-speak. In other words, don't stand up for human rights with language that is clear, unambiguous and public.

This isn't about human rights. Its about the Saudis deciding for themselves what political system they want. If we're concerned about human right we ought to be 24*7 on the Rohinga issues and so forth (which we are). The female activist is taking a principled stand on women's rights. Her deliberately provocative move is designed to capture the attention of her fellow citizens. Its not Trudeau's business, or ours. I respect her, but Trudeau shouldn't be exploiting this to burnish his brand. Ironically, she'll almost certainly spend more time in jail thanks to Justin's exploitation of her cause.

 

[Skeezix]

It did happen. The minute Trump got on the plane, Justin put his tweet out about not being bullied.

*That's* "tough-guy baiting"? Oy vey.

 

[Skeezix]

This isn't about human rights. Its about the Saudis deciding for themselves what political system they want. If we're concerned about human right we ought to be 24*7 on the Rohinga issues and so forth (which we are). The female activist is taking a principled stand on women's rights. Her deliberately provocative move is designed to capture the attention of her fellow citizens. Its not Trudeau's business, or ours. I respect her, but Trudeau shouldn't be exploiting this to burnish his brand. Ironically, she'll almost certainly spend more time in jail thanks to Justin's exploitation of her cause.

Where are your posts on this forum complaining about similar tweets about human rights activists under the previous CPC government?

Also, human rights not our concern. Impacts business. Got it.

Also interesting to hear that concern over human rights is exploitation. Has someone told Amnesty International?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

This isn't about human rights. Its about the Saudis deciding for themselves what political system they want. If we're concerned about human right we ought to be 24*7 on the Rohinga issues and so forth (which we are). The female activist is taking a principled stand on women's rights. Her deliberately provocative move is designed to capture the attention of her fellow citizens. Its not Trudeau's business, or ours. I respect her, but Trudeau shouldn't be exploiting this to burnish his brand. Ironically, she'll almost certainly spend more time in jail thanks to Justin's exploitation of her cause.

Ok, so if South Africans decide to have a system of apartheid...? I mean, Mandela was fairly deliberately provocative...

AoD

 

[buildup]

Ok, so if South Africans decide to have a system of apartheid...? I mean, Mandela was fairly deliberately provocative...

AoD

No need to employ false equivalencies.
Apartheid was a race-based system, illegitimate in every sense.
Saudi Arabia is some sort of tribal-theocratic mutation. Its up to them.

 

[Skeezix]

No need to employ false equivalencies.
Apartheid was a race-based system, illegitimate in every sense.
Saudi Arabia is some sort of tribal-theocratic mutation. Its up to them.

So it's okay to take issue with horrifying human rights violations based on race, but not okay to take issue with horrifying human rights violations if they are "tribal-theocratic". The former is "illegimate", the latter apparently not. Got it.

 

[buildup]

Where are your posts on this forum complaining about similar tweets about human rights activists under the previous CPC government?

Also, human rights not our concern. Impacts business. Got it.

Also interesting to hear that concern over human rights is exploitation. Has someone told Amnesty International?

If your job or your business was on the line you'd be more practical I assure you
Trudeau/Freeland would've had more luck advocating her cause behind the scenes (formerly known as diplomacy) rather than grand-standing. So its either cynical virtue-signalling or naive. Not sure which is worse.

 

[buildup]

So it's okay to take issue with horrifying human rights violations based on race, but not okay to take issue with horrifying human rights violations if they are "tribal-theocratic". The former is "illegimate", the latter apparently not. Got it.

Yes, you have it.
In the first case millions of blacks being brutally oppressed, the second a tribal/theocratic system which I don't admire but which is legitimate until the Saudis decide otherwise (for themselves)