[Hairball]

"Follow signs toward exit 3"

Given the subway lines are numbered (ok granted we will only have 3 lines soon after SRT closes), perhaps they should use exit letters, that might be allow for more clarity. I believe in Hong Kong they use exit letters to designate a particular set of exits, and then like A1, A2, etc as branches.

 

[Sunnyside]

Given the subway lines are numbered (ok granted we will only have 3 lines soon after SRT closes), perhaps they should use exit letters, that might be allow for more clarity. I believe in Hong Kong they use exit letters to designate a particular set of exits, and then like A1, A2, etc as branches.

I think it doesn’t matter either way; as long as the signage/visual communication is effective, people shouldn’t confuse exits numbered “1-5” with the system lines if they are, say, yellow inside a square rather than a circle.

Long term, the GO Lines will be lettered, so it’s not like using letters for exits would make the scheme foolproof either way. Although, most GO Stations are simpler than on the subway (for now…).

 

[blaixx]

The TTC have updated their maps following the closure of Line 3

 

[ShonTron]

I love the subway and streetcar map, as if the streetcars provide any sort of quality or consistent service. Route 501 Queen doesn't even divert via Dundas right now, and it's been many, many years since a 501 car has seen Long Branch Loop, never mind Humber.

 

[T3G]

The TTC have updated their maps following the closure of Line 3

I hate it! I need eye bleach.

 

[JasonParis]

Noticed this at Finch. Other than Woodbine, any other stations have these new exit signs?
View attachment 491877

While I prefer the green running man to the red "exit" signs, this does also raise the question on the difference between a "way out" and an emergency exit. Few systems seem to distinguish them well, except probably Tfl.

 

[EnviroTO]

Ideally buildings are built so that all exits can be used at all times with one way doors as required, and in cases where that is not the case have additional cues that it is an emergency only exit (flames or the words emergency exit). The green running man isn't meant to guide a person to specific exits, only the closest one, so other symbols (walking person) and exit descriptions should be used to guide people to other exits that aren't the closest one.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

 

[Amare]

He hasnt seen nothing yet, just wait until he sees the Crosstown naming and signage when that opens up in ....2030?

If one is confused navigating the TTC right now, they'll be absolutely lost trying to figure out where in the planet they are when they use the Eglinton Line.

 

[kotsy]

This was highly entertaining. Thanks for sharing!

 

[jje1000]

Interesting comment:

Nice video. I agree with most of your points. I used to work adjacent to the wayfinding dept at TTC for many years. It was pretty rag-tag back then, and I doubt much has changed. A lot of the problem is in the legacy stuff not translating well into newer modernization efforts. I remember there was some resistance to numbering the lines - some said it was too much like NYC. I saw some good changes made while I was there, but the people running the ship were way too egotistical and pushed out some great employees in-favour of hiring in-experienced kids that did their bidding. You're totally right about the ego vs public good argument. That was a big problem when I worked there. Overall nice vid and I wish some folks at the old TTC would take a look. Not sure how they measure the success of wayfinding systems, but I know for sure there's a lot of self-congratulating that happens within TTC and north American transit (as you also hinted at in your vid). Messed up that I find it easier to get around Tokyo than my hometown, sometimes.

 

[JasonParis]

Such a great video. But I do love everything he does in general.

 

[Northern Light]

I like Paige, but actually don't agree with a number of things in this video.

First off, I like nouns, I don't know what he has against them, but I consider naming/letter convention dull as dishwater. If you can't figure out a name, we have a solution, the lines have their own colour. Its visual, its easy.

For the most part, if you can't find your way around, particularly for those with phones, which is now the majority of the population, I think that's generally on you.

I remember the first time I went to Ottawa, I was giving directions to locals an hour after I got in to my hotel. Its not hard, read a map; I don't know what is says about the state of global education that this doesn't occur to most people.

****

That said, I agree that the signage at Union Station should show the terminal point, and everyone agrees Vaughan Metropolitan Centre is an excessively long name. Vaughan Centre should suffice

I don't see anything wrong with listing the cardinal direction, North on the Union signage. Yes, both routes go north, but that would still seem like reasonable info, I like cardinal directions.

His point about the way the TTC does their map legend is fair, though hardly an obstacle to reading the map, its just needless clutter.

****

The station names are fine, I think they're perfectly easy to understand, for the most part, stations are named after the major street they cross.

The University Line Stations actually should have done this, with King West, Queen West, yes, Dundas West and College West, Museum is fine, there's sense to that name.

Dundas West (existing) is a problem in that context. While I'm not in favour of renaming Dundas, as a political project, I have some sympathy for the idea that it would make more intuitive sense for the western leg to be named Roncesvalles and the station could carry that name.

****

The bus terminal at Finch, would, ideally be integrated, but literally isn't large enough. The regional terminal will go away when the Yonge line heads north, so I don't see this as a pressing issue.

****

Since I find Metrolinx use of that consultant designed T in a circle the most intellectually offensive, useless design imaginable I have no sympathy for the idea that they should be in charge of design.

****

Ultimately, I'm content to agree that some signage and some nomenclature could certainly be improved upon; I also think there are far more substantive things to worry about. I also will come back to the idea that if you don't map out where you're going before you arrive in a City or at train station or airport........... I don't understand you, and fixing the world for you strikes me as too much trouble.

Before the internet, it was different, and yes, I remember. LOL Guidebooks were a thing.

When I went to Europe for the first time, I had a half dozen small ones, one for each city I thought I was going to visit, and a language book with 3 languages + English and I read up extensively on how everything worked and the layout at Schipol Airport etc etc.

Now you can do this while on the plane or train, from the comfort of your seat, with a single device, how handy! If a web resource doesn't already come in your language, google or others can translate it for you.

I'm just baffled that this seems like a real challenge to any number of people.

Can I get 'lost', sure; doesn't happen often mind you, and I can usually straighten myself out, but rarely do I think this is the fault of a cartographer or semiotician somewhere....

I don't mean to be too self aggrandizing here; lest I get lost on my next adventure.........but I do find this a bit over-wrought.

 

[T3G]

I don't disagree with most of the criticisms in the video, but one I take absolute umbrage with is the issue he has with station name combinations like Dundas and Dundas West. Personally I think that if you are an adult and you have been entrusted to use the transit system by yourself, you should be sufficiently aware of your surroundings to be able to notice additional characters in the name of station. You're supposed to pay attention to the world around you. If you change at B/Y to line 2 because you want Dundas and you read Dundas in Dundas West and thought your planning was done, you are not an adult, you are a child with bad impulse control. Funny how the sky hasn't fallen in New York, a city of many many more tourists than Toronto, with their multiple stations with duplicated names.

I also think the idea of a higher level of government stepping in and forcing the bickering childish transit agencies to get along to work together seems to betray a rather fundamental misunderstanding of politics. If most major party politicians can't put aside their partisan bickering and work towards improving society, why would they stop transit agencies from doing the same?

 

[Dan416]

I like Paige, but actually don't agree with a number of things in this video.

First off, I like nouns, I don't know what he has against them, but I consider naming/letter convention dull as dishwater. If you can't figure out a name, we have a solution, the lines have their own colour. Its visual, its easy.

For the most part, if you can't find your way around, particularly for those with phones, which is now the majority of the population, I think that's generally on you.

I remember the first time I went to Ottawa, I was giving directions to locals an hour after I got in to my hotel. Its not hard, read a map; I don't know what is says about the state of global education that this doesn't occur to most people.

****

That said, I agree that the signage at Union Station should show the terminal point, and everyone agrees Vaughan Metropolitan Centre is an excessively long name. Vaughan Centre should suffice

I don't see anything wrong with listing the cardinal direction, North on the Union signage. Yes, both routes go north, but that would still seem like reasonable info, I like cardinal directions.

His point about the way the TTC does their map legend is fair, though hardly an obstacle to reading the map, its just needless clutter.

****

The station names are fine, I think they're perfectly easy to understand, for the most part, stations are named after the major street they cross.

The University Line Stations actually should have done this, with King West, Queen West, yes, Dundas West and College West, Museum is fine, there's sense to that name.

Dundas West (existing) is a problem in that context. While I'm not in favour of renaming Dundas, as a political project, I have some sympathy for the idea that it would make more intuitive sense for the western leg to be named Roncesvalles and the station could carry that name.

****

The bus terminal at Finch, would, ideally be integrated, but literally isn't large enough. The regional terminal will go away when the Yonge line heads north, so I don't see this as a pressing issue.

****

Since I find Metrolinx use of that consultant designed T in a circle the most intellectually offensive, useless design imaginable I have no sympathy for the idea that they should be in charge of design.

****

Ultimately, I'm content to agree that some signage and some nomenclature could certainly be improved upon; I also think there are far more substantive things to worry about. I also will come back to the idea that if you don't map out where you're going before you arrive in a City or at train station or airport........... I don't understand you, and fixing the world for you strikes me as too much trouble.

Before the internet, it was different, and yes, I remember. LOL Guidebooks were a thing.

When I went to Europe for the first time, I had a half dozen small ones, one for each city I thought I was going to visit, and a language book with 3 languages + English and I read up extensively on how everything worked and the layout at Schipol Airport etc etc.

Now you can do this while on the plane or train, from the comfort of your seat, with a single device, how handy! If a web resource doesn't already come in your language, google or others can translate it for you.

I'm just baffled that this seems like a real challenge to any number of people.

Can I get 'lost', sure; doesn't happen often mind you, and I can usually straighten myself out, but rarely do I think this is the fault of a cartographer or semiotician somewhere....

I don't mean to be too self aggrandizing here; lest I get lost on my next adventure.........but I do find this a bit over-wrought.

Yeah I thought his ranting about certain things a bit ridiculous, even though I agree with his larger point that there's oddities and stupid things going on with TTC way finding.

The ridiculousness of the naming of line 1 is definitely true, and he missed a step, from when it was referred to as the Yonge-University-Spadina line. Thankfully now it's just the Yonge-University line. But yeah, I'm sure he'd get a kick out of having an Eglinton station on the Eglinton line.

I also don't know what his issue was with the Bloor-Yonge station. It makes logical sense that it's Bloor station on the Yonge line and Yonge station on the Yonge line, although the whole station is called Bloor-Yonge. I think those interchange names are actually the most logical station names when you have a proper grid. Although Toronto isn't a perfect grid, it's good enough for a name like that to tell you where something is.

I'm not sure I would agree with renaming the University line stations with the "West" designator as they're not very far west anyway. I'd be okay with them being called King-University and Queen-University or something like that instead.

Vaughan Metropolitan Centre is definitely a dumb name. Just leave it as Vaughan Centre and it's totally fine though (or even just Vaughan, unless there's a Vaughan train station somewhere).

Dundas West I can agree with renaming to Roncesvalles--having a station name with a West designator on an East-West line always struck me as odd.