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TossYourJacket said:
You're gonna anger the "WE SHOULD USE METROLINX'S WAYFINDING STANDARD" crowd lol
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Sorry but MX's wayfinding standard is objectively better both from usability and aesthetic sensibility. The TTC's wayfinding looks like a sloppy and amateurish take on MTA/CTA standards. Does not evoke the feeling of a serious and modern transit system at all and should be tossed into the dustbin.

What real, usable, and thoughtful wayfinding looks like:

Notice how they don't rely on slapping posters on the wall and are not limited to printed matter. Where digital is used, it isn't cluttered with ads or a CP24 video feed. Wayfinding becomes a part of the architectural design while maintaining a standard across the entire system.

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Meanwhile the best the TTC can do is slap an A2 size printed poster on the wall with such poor information hierarchy that it takes a few moments to find where you are on the map:
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goodcitywhenfinished said:
Sorry but MX's wayfinding standard is objectively better both from usability and aesthetic sensibility. The TTC's wayfinding looks like a sloppy and amateurish take on MTA/CTA standards. Does not evoke the feeling of a serious and modern transit system at all and should be tossed into the dustbin.

What real, usable, and thoughtful wayfinding looks like:

Notice how they don't rely on slapping posters on the wall and are not limited to printed matter. Where digital is used, it isn't cluttered with ads or a CP24 video feed. Wayfinding becomes a part of the architectural design while maintaining a standard across the entire system.

View attachment 698133View attachment 698134View attachment 698135View attachment 698136View attachment 698137


View attachment 698138




Meanwhile the best the TTC can do is slap an A2 size printed poster on the wall with such poor information hierarchy that it takes a few moments to find where you are on the map:
View attachment 698139
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I never said the TTC one is good, it isn't. IMO though, neither is the MX one. The MX one sucks compared to all the examples you posted above. There is no point in us spending tons of money to move to another subpar standard. If we're gonna spend millions to redo wayfinding, it should be at the quality of the examples you posted above. MX's wayfinding isn't good enough to justify the money it would take to redo all the stations.

Personally, I actually like some elements of the MX standard, mostly when it comes to the signage inside the station, but I think the TTC does exterior station signage better (line numbers on the outside of stations, and the keystone signs are much better than the MX lollypops). I also hate the T logo they stole from Boston. One logo for all transit doesn't work when you have as many levels of transit as Toronto (Regional Rail, Metro Rail/Subway, Streetcar, Bus, Express Bus, etc). Ideally we'd have one for rapid, and one for local transit; or maybe one that uses different colours for different modes like the TFL roundel (this would be my preferred option). A single logo for everything doesn't work IMO. And tbh, Metrolinx could have just used their own logo instead of the T, it's a great logo for transit! (maybe just for rail transit, but it's a great logo anyway) But even if we used a T logo of some kind, it shouldn't just be a direct copy of Boston's. Vancouver managed it's own take on a T, why can't we?

But I do totally agree with you that we need much better digital signage. It's one of my biggest problems with our transit system. The way upcoming train times are an afterthought is an abomination.
 
goodcitywhenfinished said:
Sorry but MX's wayfinding standard is objectively better both from usability and aesthetic sensibility.
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As long as they don't even put the line number at the entrance to subway station, I don't think I'd say that about Metrolinx.

And the Line 5 signage is pathetic. The silly pillars have the tiniest logos ever. And there's NOTHING to indicate which platform goes to which way, until you get to the shelter. Which will then lead to a few people going to the wrong one, and walking across the track. They've had 4 to 5 years now to fix this obvious problem - I guess they have to hire too many consultants.

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For wayfinding to be as universal as possible it should use symbols that people can guess (globally) to mean something.

New York MTA is great in some respects (like their system map) and is great for English speakers, but I wouldn't say it is very helpful to non-English folks. MTA tries to make up for a lack of iconography with words... sometimes lots of words. To ensure everyone knows the entrance goes to a station, they put the word "Station" in the name, and on the stairs down they put "Subway". I think that with a subway symbol that would be unnecessary, but it is still better than a sign that has neither a subway symbol, nor the word "subway", nor the word "station". Heavily using words on signs is common for US roads and highways. If you don't read English well you will not be able to understand where you can and can't park in NYC.

London is similar in that it is heavy on the need to be fluent with English. Besides the roundel being iconic around the world they put "Underground" in the middle of the roundel on signs to mark entrances. It says "Underground" through the middle of the roundel for an underground entrance that is why you know this is for the London Underground and not a bus station. The roundel says buses when it is for buses. Is that good branding... yes. Is it good international wayfinding... no. A bus symbol and a metro symbol are clearer to an international audience.

The TTC on the other hand has some kind of 1950s/60s superhero logo with TTC on it. Does it mean subway? No. They use it for streetcar loops, buses, and their office building. It is a company brand and it is a brand an out of towner doesn't know. T and M as letters tend to fair better at conveying "transit" and "metro" but it it important to note that the MX standard doesn't lean heavily on "T" being the key piece of information... the entrances show train, metro/light-metro, streetcar, and bus symbols to convey what can be found through the doors. In Toronto you don't need to know what subway line is served in the subway station... if you are at a subway station and you want to take a subway you go into the station. In some places like NYC stations are a block apart and going to totally different places and not interlining in a way that it would make sense to just walk into the closest station, so there (in addition to making it clear that his is a subway station) having routes on the signs makes sense. In the design philosophy of only providing the information needed at a specific moment rather that inundating a person with extra information, it makes sense in those situations to as "you may need to know this piece of information now". That is simply not a problem Toronto has. The one thing I think the TTC did get right though is putting the wheelchair symbol on their lollipop stick to make it clear to drivers where to drop people off for the accessible entrance.

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TwoWheelPoli said:
I walked by Summerhill recently. The elevators there still aren't ready, but there is a new TTC pole which has the blue accessibility ring covered.
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Aren't those at the existing exit north of the CP tracks? The new entrance would be south of the existing tracks - presumably on the south side of the old North Toronto station.
 
nfitz said:
Aren't those at the existing exit north of the CP tracks? The new entrance would be south of the existing tracks - presumably on the south side of the old North Toronto station.
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Yes, I was referring to the existing station entrance north of the tracks.
 
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