[nfitz]

All series of numbers are officially spoken for. As I argue below, I would have started with 4600 not 4400.

Great post. Here's some pedantic comments.

Of the 4000s, 4000-4005 is used by the SIG built CLRVs, 4010-4196 by UTDC/HS built CLRVs and 4200-4251 are the ALRVs.

I believe there's also a 4197, 4198, and 4199 that are CLRVs. All 3 are currently in service as I write this - http://doconnor.homeip.net/TransSee/FleetFind.php?a=ttc&lowrange=4197&highrange=4199&ok=Go (two on 512, one on 501).

There's also 4500 and 4549, the two PCCs on the fleet for charters and special general revenue runs.

I'd heard they are actually 4604 and 4605 on the roster. I don't see any reason they couldn't remain having different roster numbers and historic numbers painted on them.

IMHO, the TTC should have started in the 6000s for the Rocket trainsets, since they started arriving after the last non-accessible Orion V was retired, instead of the mess of 5000s.

There will only be a short period of time when there is any overlap. After the H5s and H6s are all gone, the numbering will be very simple for subway trains.

The new Bombardiers should have been numbered from 4600, to avoid colliding with the fleet numbers of the two PCCs.

Though if they are actually 4604 and 4605 on the roster, then that doesn't help. I don't see any reason to worry about these two cars. How did TTC deal with existing streetcar 2766 falling in the range of the early 1980s New Looks?

Even 4300-4499 would work for a fleet of 200 or less in a model series.

Though there's currently 204 cars in the current order. Despite last years capital budget, they haven't actually gotten around to reducing the order yet - and the 2013-2022 capital budget appears to call for the order to be changed back to 204 cars, plus also includes (unfunded) adding 4 cars for the Bremner line, 5 cars for the West Donlands, and 6 cars for East Bayfront, in addition to the 204. So could be 219 new cars. I'd have simply started at 4300 and kept on going until we stopped getting new cars.

 

[ShonTron]

Great post. Here's some pedantic comments.


I believe there's also a 4197, 4198, and 4199 that are CLRVs. All 3 are currently in service as I write this - http://doconnor.homeip.net/TransSee/FleetFind.php?a=ttc&lowrange=4197&highrange=4199&ok=Go (two on 512, one on 501).

Right you are. I knew that there are 196 CLRVs, got that mixed up with the correct fact that there's a gap between the Swiss and domesticly built CLRVs.

I'd heard they are actually 4604 and 4605 on the roster. I don't see any reason they couldn't remain having different roster numbers and historic numbers painted on them.

That's new to me. But makes sense, because the 1980s rebuilt PCCs were indeed renumbered from 4600 (and the first even painted in modern CLRV colours).

But for the Rockets, they should have started with 6000 IMO given the dramatic difference in their configuration and the fact that these fleets will never have XXX6-XXX9 in their digits either. I'd argue that the Transit City cars, whom ever owns/operates them, should start from 3100 as suburban LRT routes in the vein that that was what the SRT was supposed to be.

 

[BurlOak]

The testing will involve running them in winter road salt conditions, running up and down hills (Bathurst hill?), negotiating curves (the Queen and Coxwell loop?), speed tests (Queensway), and to check that the new vehicles can handle all tracks and clearances in Toronto.

How long will this testing take - 1 or 2 weeks.

I assume that they were designed to handle the conditions required in Toronto, along with suitable safety margins. I also assume they have some sort of test track to confirm the design assumptions. Automobile manufacturers do all these things so if my company orders a fleet of several hundred cars, I can put them in service right away and not have to do the testing that is the responsibility of the supplier.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How long will this testing take - 1 or 2 weeks.

I assume that they were designed to handle the conditions required in Toronto, along with suitable safety margins. I also assume they have some sort of test track to confirm the design assumptions. Automobile manufacturers do all these things so if my company orders a fleet of several hundred cars, I can put them in service right away and not have to do the testing that is the responsibility of the supplier.

The testing of the heavy rail Toronto Rockets (subway cars) took months, on the Toronto subway tracks themselves.

They have to test in all kinds of weather conditions and road conditions. In addition, they have to test the overhead catenary (using both it's trolley and pantograph) and track infrastructure itself. One set of problems are the track switches, especially the NA switches. Don't want the switches to change just as the new vehicles is in mid-turn.

 

[Markster]

How long will this testing take - 1 or 2 weeks.

I assume that they were designed to handle the conditions required in Toronto, along with suitable safety margins. I also assume they have some sort of test track to confirm the design assumptions. Automobile manufacturers do all these things so if my company orders a fleet of several hundred cars, I can put them in service right away and not have to do the testing that is the responsibility of the supplier.

The vehicles were designed to handle local conditions, and now they will be tested to those specifications.
Why build a TTC test track in Thunder Bay, when they can use the real thing in Toronto?

 

[nfitz]

Why build a TTC test track in Thunder Bay, when they can use the real thing in Toronto?

The test track is in Bath.

 

[allabootmatt]

Great post. Here's some pedantic comments.

Though there's currently 204 cars in the current order. Despite last years capital budget, they haven't actually gotten around to reducing the order yet - and the 2013-2022 capital budget appears to call for the order to be changed back to 204 cars, plus also includes (unfunded) adding 4 cars for the Bremner line, 5 cars for the West Donlands, and 6 cars for East Bayfront, in addition to the 204. So could be 219 new cars. I'd have simply started at 4300 and kept on going until we stopped getting new cars.

I'm very encouraged to see the Commission restoring the capital budget reductions forced on them by the Fords last year. Given the huge population growth in areas that depend on the streetcar network, the idea that it's practical to be cutting back on vehicle numbers struck me as nuts, especially if the system gets expanded along the waterfront. Undoubtedly, Stintz and co. figure that with Council basically running the show without input from the mayor now, that sort of penny-pinching isn't necessary.

More broadly, I see these new vehicles as a huge potential force multiplier for the streetcar network. Gravy Train aside, if I were king I'd send Byford and other top TTC officials on a mandatory tour of Leipzig, Frankfurt etc with their eyes taped open to see just how rapid-transit-like streetcars can be if you don't insist on running them like buses. All-door boarding is a good start. Beyond that, removing some ridiculous stops (like the Simcoe/University/York/Bay/Yonge quartet on King), putting in arrival time displays wherever possible, and building *partial* ROWs, like on the wide stretch of College from Spadina to Bathurst for example, would utterly transform the system. And that's before we get into stuff like true signal priority and plain old decently managed service. Byford seems like a smart guy, so let's hope he gets this.

That said, the justification in the capital budget for restoring some of the Yonge Line capacity improvements leaves a little to be desired. This document seems to represent a return to the logic that 'if we just put billions more into squeezing more capacity out of the YUS, we won't need a DRL for decades,' as though the only benefit of that new project would be to reduce crowding on Yonge, and not to serve new areas or expand the network. I'd rather save the money the TTC wants to spend on upgrading YUS capacity to beyond Hong Kong levels for new lines.

 

[the lemur]

Spur line still under construction:

 

[W. K. Lis]

Noticed the lack of the TTC's streetcar trademark green bulls-eye light. Assuming the two corner lights are blue, to indicate handicap accessible vehicle.

Maybe the TTC will add the green light on their own. Maybe it can be modification can be made for the production models later.

The green bulls-eye as it appeared on the TTC PCC and Peter Witt.

Note the lack.

 

[nfitz]

Assuming the two corner lights are blue, to indicate handicap accessible vehicle.

That seems kind of pointless ... by the time these are all in service, all TTC vehicles will be accessible. Though if they are blue instead of green, seems fine to me.

 

[Cast2]

I think a saw a sticker sign that has the universal wheelchair symbol on one of the doors.

 

[nfitz]

I think a saw a sticker sign that has the universal wheelchair symbol on one of the doors.

Yes, it's on the second door from the front - which is the one door that will be wheelchair accessible (because it has a ramp - presumably any wheelchair user who wishes, could board at any door if they were physically able).

 

[Dan416]

Noticed the lack of the TTC's streetcar trademark green bulls-eye light. Assuming the two corner lights are blue, to indicate handicap accessible vehicle.

Maybe the TTC will add the green light on their own. Maybe it can be modification can be made for the production models later.

The green bulls-eye as it appeared on the TTC PCC and Peter Witt.

Note the lack.

And the problem is???

 

[W. K. Lis]

And the problem is???

You don't know Toronto's streetcar history. The green advance light used to appear on pre-CLRV streetcars to indicate waiting passengers that a streetcar is coming. Only the Toronto streetcars had them. So to add them would make them more "Toronto".

A San Francisco streetcar:

For example, Montréal streetcars did not use headlights. Making them "Montréal" streetcars.

Also note the lack of the green advance light.

 

[Nobina]

I absolutely love Toronto's new streetcars - they really look beautiful!!

I just wish the TTC had retained the "Studebaker"-style centre headlight. The Witts, PCCs, A/CLRVs all had them.

This is what I mean:

Hopefully this modification will be made to the production models.