[achender]

I'm curious how many workers will be checking to make sure people are paying when the new streetcars go into service. I think it will be important especially in the beginning to make sure this is happening, so it creates a impression that you can't just get away with it.

The CEO's report for the August 19 meeting says that (subject to board approval) all streetcar routes will be POP by January 1, 2015 and that extra fare inspectors will be hired.

It was originally intended that the remaining streetcar routes would only convert to the POP system once they
received the first of their batch of new streetcars. Subject to discussion with the Board, we propose that ALL
remaining streetcar routes convert to POP from January 1, 2015, thereby permitting all-day, all door boarding to speed
up dwell times and to remove a major irritant for those with a Metropass or a valid transfer, namely the current need
to board at the front.
Clearly, such an expansion of POP will need to be backed by a credible fare enforcement policy to ensure that
customer benefits are not outweighed by an increase in lost revenue. To that end, we will be recruiting a team of
dedicated fare inspectors to enforce the POP or honour system. We firmly believe that this is the right thing to do as
part of a suite of measures to speed up and improve the quality of surface transit routes.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm curious how many workers will be checking to make sure people are paying when the new streetcars go into service. I think it will be important especially in the beginning to make sure this is happening, so it creates a impression that you can't just get away with it.

I just hope they aren't too aggressive about it. The streetcars will launch in only two weeks, but I haven't seen the TTC release any education content yet. There will be a lot of accidental fare evaders the first few months.

 

[Tulse]

There will be a lot of accidental fare evaders the first few months.

I'm not sure how the new procedure would cause someone to "accidentally" evade fare. Surely everyone will know that, despite the change, the system isn't suddenly free to ride, and still requires paying a fare somewhere.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm not sure how the new procedure would cause someone to "accidentally" evade fare. Surely everyone will know that, despite the change, the system isn't suddenly free to ride, and still requires paying a fare somewhere.

Someone (particularly, say, a visitor/tourist) may see people boarding by the back doors and assume there must be a way to pay once you get on the streetcar and get on and see no way to do that without fighting their way back up through the jammed car to the driver.....that might an accidental fare evasion.

 

[ehlow]

I just hope they aren't too aggressive about it. The streetcars will launch in only two weeks, but I haven't seen the TTC release any education content yet. There will be a lot of accidental fare evaders the first few months.

I'm sure they will be understanding at first, and have a huge education campaign including people at the streetcar stations and in the vehicles.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Someone (particularly, say, a visitor/tourist) may see people boarding by the back doors and assume there must be a way to pay once you get on the streetcar and get on and see no way to do that without fighting their way back up through the jammed car to the driver.....that might an accidental fare evasion.

That is almost exactly what happened to me when dealing with the Yonge Subway shuttle a few months ago. The on-street TTC staff made customers board through the rear door, leaving us with no way to pay a fare (there was no way to get to the the fare box). I'm still not sure how or where I was supposed to pay my fare.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I wonder how inspectors will deal with crowded vehicles. During rush hour they get so crowded that I'm sure a significant number of passengers won't be able to make it to the fare machine to pay. There should be an exemption in these situations

 

[1overcosc]

Tourists often trouble with the TTC. When I came to Toronto for the first time I was very confused as to how the fare system worked.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Tourist are usually troubled with the fare system in cities that they visit. This isn't unique to Toronto.

 

[rbt]

Someone (particularly, say, a visitor/tourist) may see people boarding by the back doors and assume there must be a way to pay once you get on the streetcar ...

There are going to be fare machines on the streetcar so they can do exactly that; cash or token at first and Presto by end of year.

The street-side machines are for additional capacity so lines don't form on the vehicles.

 

[nfitz]

Tourist are usually troubled with the fare system in cities that they visit. This isn't unique to Toronto.

Indeed. Despite growing up on the MUCTC in Montreal, I always have trouble these days, with their new fare system. Last week, I bought a two-ride "Occasional" ticket from the machine, instead of the usual one-ride ticket. While you have to feed the one-ride tickets through the ticket gate to get them to open, it seems you have to "tap" the two-ride ticket on the pass reader. But as the cards are exactly the same size, I ended up feeding the card through the gate about 10 times in various directions before going to talk to the attendant in my broken-French.

And I'm still confused which machine I'm supposed to be buying tickets from. There are two types of machines, and I *think* one is just for adding value to an existing Opus card ... but it's hardly clear from the signage, and I'm only guessing.

And this was all despite reading up on the various fare types, etc., on their website before heading over to the Metro station.

 

[Fred.S]

I wonder how inspectors will deal with crowded vehicles. During rush hour they get so crowded that I'm sure a significant number of passengers won't be able to make it to the fare machine to pay. There should be an exemption in these situations

Not a full solution to this, but one thing they can do, which I've seen in London, is to do a full check when people are exiting vehicles into a station. For example, at Spadina station, have like at least 10 inspectors, and maybe a police officer or two check everyone's fares when they leave the vehicle, maybe using some temporary fencing to funnel people a bit. They could also maybe do this at some busier stops. As long as there are many inspectors, and people who paid are not held up for more than a minute or so, than it should work.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not a full solution to this, but one thing they can do, which I've seen in London, is to do a full check when people are exiting vehicles into a station. For example, at Spadina station, have like at least 10 inspectors, and maybe a police officer or two check everyone's fares when they leave the vehicle, maybe using some temporary fencing to funnel people a bit. They could also maybe do this at some busier stops. As long as there are many inspectors, and people who paid are not held up for more than a minute or so, than it should work.

That wasn't the problem I was thinking of.

What if the streetcar is so crowded that passengers can't make it to the payment machine? I've been on rush hour streetcars where it is next to impossible to move a single step in any direction. In situations like that it is unreasonable to expect passengers to fight their way throught the streetcar to make a payment

 

[ehlow]

That wasn't the problem I was thinking of.

What if the streetcar is so crowded that passengers can't make it to the payment machine? I've been on rush hour streetcars where it is next to impossible to move a single step in any direction. In situations like that it is unreasonable to expect passengers to fight their way throught the streetcar to make a payment

Good point, but there should be payment machines at the stops no?

 

[Markster]

1) At the most busy stops, they will have off-board payment.
2) Payment validators will be quite close to the primary middle doors. They should be within an arm's length once you've stepped in.
3) All door boarding will distribute load through the streetcar. You won't have the same crush at the entrance as you do now.

If, failing all of those, you still literally cannot reach over to the validator to pay your fare, then the streetcar is clearly so packed that it would also be impossible to check fares.

I suspect in time, people will be trained to leave a bit of a bubble around the validator (unless they enjoy getting pushed around by all the people tagging it) making it generally accessible, even in full conditions.